New Home Defense Choice?

I'm not too worried about over penetration as my house is detached and solid.

I'd use a pistol, .45 or 9mm. And exacerbate my hearing loss. Anyone who's ever shot in a confined space without hearing protection will tell you it sucks. Not as much as getting shot of course.

I voted AR, consider loading it with quick-expanding varmint rounds.

Did you buy the town house or are you renting it? If you own it then why not just harden the shared wall?

If you own it then why not just harden the shared wall?

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Yeah and build a panic room too! How many thousands of dollars would that be? Cheaper to buy iron bars for the windows and roll the door in 1/4 inch ceramic armor.
See my prior post and buy an alarm system and a good pistol.

^^^ It would "cost thousands" to harden one interior wall.

Alex23 said:

I'm not too worried about over penetration as my house is detached and solid.

I'd use a pistol, .45 or 9mm. And exacerbate my hearing loss. Anyone who's ever shot in a confined space without hearing protection will tell you it sucks. Not as much as getting shot of course.

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You ever had a M80 go off in a car with you? I have, a gun inside a house is nothing.

It would "cost thousands" to harden one interior wall

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My point exactly.

The chanced of a bg coming into your house are about 0% unless you advertise money drugs or guns. Paranoia wins again. Over thinking a hd situation is rampent. Now please do not get me wrong I have my 1911 in a super handy position while I am home But I do not concern myself with caliber or gun choices or the consequences there of, if all I has was a 50-120 sharps you can bet I wouls load it with a 700gr lead and as much blackpowder as I could cram in the case, if the bullet didnt get him he would die from powder burns to 75% of his body. Pick somthing and go with it, but since you ask pointing long arms(read as rifles and shotguns) around in small homes is not a very good idea based on manuverability.
Just get a pistol and good ammo and dont think about it any more, and if this occures by all means take a minute to ask your intruder to place ear plugs in while you apply your own hearing protection! If it comes to this who cares what the noise level is the adrenilan will be at such a point you wouldnt notice the shot or the rinnging in your ears for hours!..........*realizes he has been up for 78 hours and is in endless rant.....opens beer and heads to shower then bed*

^^^ In what way will "one" hardened wall cost "thousands of dollars" especially if one does the work himself?

You ever had a M80 go off in a car with you? I have, a gun inside a house is nothing.

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No, generally I try to avoid setting off explosives in my vehicle.

well since you asked......
Town house= 2 floors atleast all the ones I have seen, and who said 1 wall? there are 2 sides unless you get the end peice or you have the ability to know which side you will be shooting at meaning you WILL know where the intruder will be entering. NOT LIKELY!!!
So you want to "harden a wall" Sheet rock removal.....free Sheet rock replacement I take my interior walls facing one side of my house....10x35(being shy on my measuring) $7=32feet sq total 11 sheets=$77 filler lets say 2x5/8 sheet rock for arguement sake=$9 a sheet $x22= $198 $30 for new electrical outlets $50 for sheet rock screws $15 for tape $80 mud for seems and texture$45 Primer paint $100 Color paint 2 coats so far you are now up to 565 now add in another $100 for trim and paint for that and $100 for carpet cleaning, Now quickly aproaching $1000 but not quite there you say.....add $200 for building permit right up on 1k, oh you didnt have many tools? Lets face it if your getting a town home you likely dont have many tools toss in another $200 for tools. I will give you free dumpster acess, add gas money for back and forth to the lowes $150-$200 and now your done right? Well only partially your wall is some what hardened but its just going to be 1 and 3/4 inches of sheet rock for"hardened" Add more money for different materials.......oh yeah I do a fair amount of construction so I know look at lowes.com for my prices and this does not take into account the nickle and dime things no one ever thinks of like brads for the trim work paint brushes or what is your time worth........ And these material prices will cover up or down stairs 1 facing wall only

^^^ Eric... Your dollar figures are retail to have a "professional contractor" do the work. I don't EVER pay ANYONE $50-100 per hour to do grunt work. MY TIME is not worth $50-100 per hour UNLESS I'M PAYING THAT MUCH to SAVE that money.

no no no, I never included a fee for"my time" these prices are right off of lowes.com for just materials and a guess for the building permit. These prices are retail for you the consumer, my prices with a business licens would actualy be less. And when I ask what is my time worth for me to do a project for me I add in just $10/hr its 20/hr if I work for a customer.
So just in material your still really close to 1 wall on 1 floor for 1k

All Argueing aside, most home defense situations WILL be avoided just for a cheap alarm system at $10 or so a month.

Eric F said:

no no no, I never included a fee for"my time" these prices are right off of lowes.com for just materials and a guess for the building permit. These prices are retail for you the consumer, my prices with a business licens would actualy be less. And when I ask what is my time worth for me to do a project for me I add in just $10/hr its 20/hr if I work for a customer.
So just in material your still really close to 1 wall on 1 floor for 1k

All Argueing aside, most home defense situations WILL be avoided just for a cheap alarm system at $10 or so a month.

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Please post those costs per Ft2. I need that info too.

One thousand dollars to harden "one wall of an owned home" is worth it IMHO.

8x4 sheet of 1/4 inch=$7 .22/ft2
8x4 sheet of 5/8=$9each (double for hardening) .56/ft2 total
.78 per foot total in my example I gave this would be $273 but you have to but 8x4 sheets making a total of $275
So the surface is 1/4 then you add 2 sheets of 5/8 in the wall then your neighbor has 1/4 inch sheet rock on his side if there is no firewall.
Go to lowes.com enter a zipcode and search sheetrock.

Hey look I will duke this out with you later I am headed to bed.

Anything that can penetrate enough to stop an attacker will penetrate through several walls. So your options are either to risk overpenetration or not have an effective weapon.

Pistol JHP rounds will overpenetrate MORE than a rifle round or buckshot after passing through drywall, because they clog up and fail to expand, and thus function like a 9mm FMJ or .45 FMJ. Handguns are nice for their size, but for a long gun you want to stay away from handgun rounds (e.g. instead of a 9mm carbine, get a .223 carbine).

Rifle and Shotgun rounds will function virtually the same after passing through drywall as they would have before. So it's up to you whether you want a shotgun or a rifle, as each has their advantages and disadvantages.

At least that's what I see here.

Eric F said:

8x4 sheet of 1/4 inch=$7 .22/ft2
8x4 sheet of 5/8=$9each (double for hardening) .56/ft2 total
.78 per foot total in my example I gave this would be $273 but you have to but 8x4 sheets making a total of $275
So the surface is 1/4 then you add 2 sheets of 5/8 in the wall then your neighbor has 1/4 inch sheet rock on his side if there is no firewall.
Go to lowes.com enter a zipcode and search sheetrock.

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EDITED: Thank you for the prices. I need to do some calculating too.

The hand guns probably wont be a 1 shot man stopper and youre more likely to 'spray' inaccuratly with them if in a panicked state. The 12ga with buck shot will more than likely stop a man with a single well placed shot, and since its a long gun, you will have more accuracy and stability than a pistol. Also, since it is pump-action, there is more of a chance you will take more care in aiming, instead of a repeated panicked trigger pull.

I saw a home video of a man who is regarded as a well traind marksman, being charged at by a wild pig. He fired 6 rounds as fast as he could from his revolver at a distance of what looked like 10 to 25 feet, and he missed with all 6 rounds because he panicked. He might have done the same with a shotgun but imo he woud have placed his shots much more accurately.

Penetration throught the walls of structures

Ha anybody done an actual practical test pertinent to this issue? Should be pretty simple if one has enough money to build two three walls, spaced at least 9 feet apart and build of various typical materials. Use typical HD shells and cartridges and at various spacings. If it has already been mentioned I apologize for my redundancy.

OP,
What is the barrier between units? My daughter's townhouse has cinderblock walls covered with drywall between units thus rendering certain arguments moot.

I can't pick one. All will work fine if you do your part.

If it won't penetrate wall, it's not likely to penetrate enough bad guy.

An 5.56 round and the like might be the only exception I can think of.


I think each has it's place and will be suited for a certain job in an HD scenario. You should probably have some idea of how you would deploy each. I don't have kids. If someone broke in and we were in the bed room, we'd be behind the bed with the shotgun on the door... and handgun would be better for keeping on my person where I might not get to the shotgun.... or a handgun might be easier to manuver when checking on a bump in the night. I'd probably opt for a handgun if I had to go get my kids and take them to the back of the house so they can get behind a barrier and be behind the shotgun...

Just stuff to think about.

Penetration throught the walls of structures
Ha anybody done an actual practical test pertinent to this issue? Should be pretty simple if one has enough money to build two three walls, spaced at least 9 feet apart and build of various typical materials. Use typical HD shells and cartridges and at various spacings. If it has already been mentioned I apologize for my redundancy.

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Yes sir. Many tests have been done on this issue. .223 .55gr hollowpoint rounds, 9mm JHP, .45 JHP were all tested on fabricated wall structures using drywall and 2x4 mediums. The .223 showed in every test to blow up after contact with the drywall and was shown to actually be the safest round to use indoors where a miss could be an extreme liability. The .45 and 9mm both just went through drywall like it wasn't even there.

goblin your right. People can be very wrong on spread rate of shot. It does depend on load an the barrels choke but it would be easy to miss with a shotgun if shooting from the hip or useing a pistol grip or just not aiming from the shoulder. I placed the tread earlier to wake up some people if they would read it but they did. Low brass 7 1/2 bird shot is used for skeet or qual/dove and very differnt from max charge high brass and max weight larger bird shot used in #6, 4, 2 or bb bird shot and you will still burn down a atleast one wall and it will cause major organ damage. It will not go thru the whole darn building like OO buck can do with a clean miss.

Most people shoot a shotgun so baddly they would be better off with a pistol loaded with very light weight bullets for the caliber. Anyone pay attention to what a messly bean bad shot can do? They are thruly on the laim side and typicaly still drop a BG. OO or OOO buck on some skinny a** methhead will go straight throw him and if you miss it will go into the ajoining unit a wall or two or out side. To many guys have never hunted with shot to under stand what it will or will not do or how it can pattern in the range of your home.

If you buy a shotgun go to the range a spend the day working on pattern size and learn how to shoot it well. No stupid pistol grips ether. Get a shotgun with a stock and get a 20 ga if ladies and kids are around so the kids and lady of the house can learn how to handle one. Do try some high brass heavier bird shot also. Use ply wood for a backer to see what different loads will do before you make your choice. Get your self a door bar also to stop or slow the BG from getting in thru doors. Even hang on the door knob alarms to scare you and the BG.

I did not vote as all the ones to pick are poor choices.
Anyone of those will go threw drywall, and keep going.
I would use ( And I do) 38spl.
Far less likely to go threw the wall and it easy to control and will do the job it is asked to do.

I did not vote as all the ones to pick are poor choices.
Anyone of those will go threw drywall, and keep going.
I would use ( And I do) 38spl.
Far less likely to go threw the wall and it easy to control and will do the job it is asked to do.

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A defense-load .38 will go through a wall just like a 9mm will. If your specific load doesn't go through a wall, it also won't go through a human target, and is an ineffective stopper.

An inch of drywall is a lot easier to pierce than 12" of human.