Lee Adjustable Charge Bar

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MoreIsLess

MoreIsLess

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What are your thoughts on the Lee adjustable charge bar.

Can anyone suggest an alternative (besides the discs) that will work with a Lee Turret Press Powder Dispenser. I find the cc markings on the Lee to be hard to read. They are so close together it's hard to tell the diffreence between 3 and 4.

Also, the VMD listed in the instuctions of the LACB to be inaccurate (at least for Win 231). I find it more accurate to callculate the VMD by dispensing 1cc of powder using the LACB and then weighing 1cc
 
They are so close together it's hard to tell the diffreence between 3 and 4.
Click to expand...
That is what powder scales are for.

I don't trust powder measure markings as far as I could bowl them using one finger.

Every can of powder you bring home does not weigh the same when measured by volume.

You have to use your scales to set the measure correctly in actual grain weight thrown.

rc
 
I have one & when I use it I like it. I normally use the disk but there is times I use it on top of the diisk. I also never look at the chart so it doesn't bother me.
 
rcmodel said:
That is what powder scales are for.

I don't trust powder measure markings as far as I could bowl them using one finger.

Every can of powder you bring home does not weigh the same when measured by volume.

You have to use your scales to set the measure correctly in actual grain weight thrown.

rc
Click to expand...
I wasn't advocating relying soley on the charge bar reading without weighing a charge. I always weigh each charge and then adjust the charge bar, repeating the process until it produces the weight I want. I do want to calculate a good starting point on the charge bar.
 
Just curious. What caliber are you reloading?

I and others have had issues with W231 and the adjustable charge bar when using small charges. The whole ends up looking like a cat's eye and doesn't fill reliably. The disks are better and more reliable with small charges-- under 4 grains or so. YMMV.
 
The adjustable disk works great for me, but in all these years I never used the marking on the adjuster, it just never replicates the same throw when you try to duplicate a previous setting. The play in screw threads are just not that precise, one set of therads is cut on a brass screw and the other set of threads are cut in a molded plastic housing. The two resulting threads have too much play. I set it up with the powder scale every time.

I never use the chart. It's not even close.

The story about the VMD chart from Lee is that they used one particular powder (Bullseye) to determine the volume of each cavity, then theoretically used the density of all the other powders relative to Bullseye and mathematically calculated the rest of the chart. In theory, it should work in practice. In practice, the theory never works.
 
ants said:
The adjustable disk works great for me, but in all these years I never used the marking on the adjuster, it just never replicates the same throw when you try to duplicate a previous setting. The play in screw threads are just not that precise, one set of therads is cut on a brass screw and the other set of threads are cut in a molded plastic housing. The two resulting threads have too much play. I set it up with the powder scale every time.

I never use the chart. It's not even close.

The story about the VMD chart from Lee is that they used one particular powder (Bullseye) to determine the volume of each cavity, then theoretically used the density of all the other powders relative to Bullseye and mathematically calculated the rest of the chart. In theory, it should work in practice. In practice, the theory never works.
Click to expand...
I found that too. I calculated my own VMD by setting the charge bar to 1cc and then seeing how much a charge weighs using the charge bar set at 1cc. By dividing 1 by the number of grains 1cc weighs, I get the VMD (which differs from the chart). I use that to calculate the setting on the charge bar using the number of grains I will be using (5.2). That gives me a pretty close starting point, although I still have to adjust the charge bar in or out a little to the the weight I want. Once I get it to distribute the weight I want, it seems to be fairly consistent.
 
Jeff H said:
Just curious. What caliber are you reloading?

I and others have had issues with W231 and the adjustable charge bar when using small charges. The whole ends up looking like a cat's eye and doesn't fill reliably. The disks are better and more reliable with small charges-- under 4 grains or so. YMMV.
Click to expand...
I am currently loading 9mm. I was using the discs and trying to get the powder measure to produce 4.2 grains of 231. I found the suggested hole in the disc produces less than 4.2 (about 4.0) and the next larger one produces greater than 4.2 (about 4.4). So, I can't find a disc that produces 4.2 so I bought the adjustable charge bar.
 
I have had good results with the charge bar too - for .380 I do use the micro disk due to the low charge but with HP-38/Win 231 down to 3.5gr the adjustable bar is fine.

I have never really paid attention to the markings on the charge bar. I have a digital scale, tare a case and then weigh the powder for a setting and just adjust up or down. I do throw a half dozen charges for each setting before even weighing one.
 
I have very good results with the charge bar as well unless I get to very low throws of Titegroup. I created a spreadsheet for the various powders I use that takes me to a micormeter setting on the bar. For instance, if I want 4.0 grains of BE, I set the bar to the predetermined value and start from there. After at least 5 test throws the weight settles out to a constant value and I can adjust slightly from there. Rarely do I need to move more than 0.1 cc increments on the bar to get what my spreadsheet indicates. I'll check every 5th charge on a scale for verification.

What I have found is that no matter what pistol charge of Hodgdon Clays you are looking for, the charge bar is not consistent. Surprisingly enough, the old Lee perfect powder measure dispenses Clays with more consistency than the Pro Auto Disk. YMMV.
 
Also, the VMD listed in the instuctions of the LACB to be inaccurate
Click to expand...

OK, I'll bite what's VMD & LACB?

I used the charge bar for a month or two & all of a sudden it wouldn't drop a consistent load.
I never did figure out the problem.
I went back to the discs & just lived with not being able to finely tune the exact powder drop.
I eventually upgraded to a Dillon powder measure & have had no problems since.

So my opinion of it is decidedly negative.
Maybe with large drops (15 gr or more) it might be accurate.
But it sure didn't like Tite Group & 4 grains.
 
LACB Lee Adjustable Charge Bar, a name Lee made up.
VMD Volume Measuring Density, a term Lee made up.


Maybe with large drops (15 gr or more) it might be accurate.
But it sure didn't like Tite Group & 4 grains.
Click to expand...
Very small charges with the LACB are difficult.
We have a thread on this subject every month or so.
During the spring or summer this year we had a thread,
and someone gave a link to a thread at 1911Forum.
You'll have to do a search to find it.
A genius there showed how a filler or 'shim' is used to relocate the cavity under the discharge hole.
Then the LACB reliably drops loads down to about 3.0 or 3.5 grains, depending upon type of powder.
 
MoreIsLess,
I haven't had good charge bar consistency using Vit n320, Win 231, or AA#5. I've made sure it's centered on the hole, etc. etc.

I do have excellent "consistency" with Lee disc holes modified to my load needs. (3.9 to 5.6 grs. in .2gr increments depending on the powder)

I slightly counter-bore from the bottom of a slightly "too small" disc hole until my exact load is dropped. I "renumber" the new disc hole between the existing numbers, so it still works "volumetrically" on the chart with any powder. Lee Powder Discs are $5 each.
 
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I got the charge bar, but I don't like it. It doesn't seem very consistent. So then I got the micro-disk and that works much better. I like the micro-disk! I use it for .38 Special.
 
My adjustable charge bar is completely useless for anything I've tried to do with it.

I load 45 acp, 9mm and 38 spl with various powders (Unique, Titegroup, others). With small volumes it bridges completely dropping ZERO powder. At it's best it varies +/- 1/2 a grain.

I like Lee products in general but this one is a flop.
 
II also use the Lee adjustable charge bar but with nothing better to do this morning just for my own education I spent a little time and weighed the charge thrown for each hole in two separate black disks and two holes of the micro disk and put the results in a simple Word doc taped to the wall by my reloading bench.

I now have the various weights thrown from the .24 -.57 holes giving weights of Win 231/HP-38 from 2.6 -6.0 grains which will cover the 4 calibers I presently reload.

I realize that there could be slight differences in powder volume due to humidity changes over time, but for my low-mid plinking round needs any charge weight change will be insignificant.

Win 231/HP-38 is the only powder I use for those 4 calibers, so for me the list was simple to generate.
 
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LACB has worked great for me,using AA#5,Unique,Power Pistol,Red Dot.A little graphite in the hopper a couple years ago helped stop the static build up.Ive loaded 9mm,40,.223 with accurate results +/- .1 grn.
 
Hmm...the charge bar has worked fine for me with Win231; I found it less than stellar w/ small charges of coarse flake powders, but it says to expect that in the instructions. I had issues w/ the disks being less consistent and not being able to throw an exact determined charge. I never thought about drilling the disk hole larger.

To 1SOW, why counterbore from underneath VS just drilling the hole larger? I don't understand how that works.
 
If you drill or counterbore a little at a time (vary the depth) from underneath, you can make small adjustments till you get the exact drop you want. If you drill straight through, what do you do if it now drops more than you wanted? Not everyone has an extensive drill set. Further, by doing it from underneath you do not create an edge for the powder to catch on.
 
I have NEVER gotten the Lee Adjustable Charge Bar to work.
If you want a Lee Pro Auto-Disk with an adjustable charge bar, buy the Dillon powder measure and the cartridge specific powder-through expanders (Dillon calls them "powder funnels"). Do not just get the case mouth flare/bell insert, get the real expander insert.
It is no more than an overgrown Lee measure with various charge bars from itty-bitty 1.0-2.0gn loads to full magnums like .375 H&H (don't think it will go up to .50BMG).
 
To 1SOW, why counterbore from underneath VS just drilling the hole larger? I don't understand how that works.
Click to expand...

You don't want to drill from the top because if you only drill a short distance to get your drop, that leaves a "ledge" that powder can stick to. Drilling fom the bottom, you can stop drilling after maybe 1/8" in and no powder flow is interrupted by a 'ledge'. I don't need to drill all the way through the disc.

I've been able to bore (from the bottom) just slightly larger than an existing hole and stop just short of the amount of powder I want. I then use some carborundum paper wrapped around a dowel to smooth where the drill stops. This small added sanding adds just a skosh more powder. If you are drilling to get a drop "BETWEEN" hole 46 and 49, renumber the hole as "47.5". The chart still works on hole 47.5 with any powder. The amount of drop will be half way between what number 46 and 49 give with any powder.

I've loaded many thousands of 3.9 to 5.6 grain 9mm loads with three different powders. It really does work, and it's easy to do if you go slow and check the powder drop as you go.. So far it's cost $5 for one extra disc to get 4 new holes.

Hope this makes sense.
 
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My post no way bashes the Pro Auto Disc, it throws very consistant loads. I could never get the pos adjustable bar to drop consistant loads.... ever! Some people have good luck with it, and it may just be a powder thing. Most handgun loads perform just fine with the drop from any disc....really dont need to go between the fixed cavity volume, for a perfect load.
 
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