Colt Detective Special

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Niagara

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Dec 28, 2011
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Tonawanda, NY
Good afternoon gentlemen from a new member. Just purchase a used Colt Det Spl #857016 in great shape. ( silver medallion on grips). Shot a few rounds through it on 50ft indoor range using some old Federal Nyclad 125Gr SWC. Got it on paper but low. If possible I would appreciate any info on this fine old Colt. Also, the replies on ammo choice are a little confusing. I don't want to use +p, so what is your reccommendation to use for indoor target until I find out where it shoots and then for home protection.? Thank you.
 
Welcome, first of all!

You began at the top, because in my opinion, the Colt DS is about the finest snub-nose revolver out there. Its counterpart---the S&W Chief's Special---is a bit small in my hand and somewhat uncomfortable, albeit slightly more concealable. I use .38 wadcutters for target practice, but I'd use +P for home defense. A set of snap caps will keep you on you game when you can't make it to the range; and when you can, they're great to throw into the mix to prevent flinching under live fire.

I'm not sure if it would be my first choice for home defense if a shotgun was available.
 
125Gr SWC. Got it on paper but low.
All older fixed sight guns were factory sighted to hit POA with 158 grain, standard .38 Spl loads of the day.

There was no such thing as 125 grain bullets back then.

Light bullets don't kick as much, and it gets out of the barrel sooner.
So, the gun doesn't recoil as fast or far before the bullet leaves the barrel, and it shoots low.

I would locate some cheap 158 grain LRN loads for practice.
It should shoot to the sights with them.
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/fed...38b-special-lead-round-nose-rdbx-p-74788.html

Then use this for HD.
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/rem...2-special-lead-hollow-point-rdbx-p-74795.html

That +P today isn't any hotter then standard pressure was when your gun was made.
It chronographs about 800 FPS out of a 2" barrel.

rc
 
As I recall, Colt was never nearly as lawyerphobic as S&W was, and they said +P was fine. Double check that, though.

If you use 158 grain bullets, I'll bet you will print much closer to point of aim. ;-)
 
as mentioned, 158s will solve your problem.

and also, as mentioned, +P is not a not round. As RC said, today's "+P" is about the same power as the regular ammo of the time.
 
I think you will find that 148 grain, mid-range wadcutters also shoot to the point of aim. Recoil is mild, and I also use them for inside-the-house defense. For longer distances use 158 grain semi-wadcutters that shoot to point-of-aim, or a bit high. Don't expect much expansion from hollow points.

At the moment you can get a great deal on .38 Special ammunition at:

http://goo.gl/BBWEv

Your Detective Special (#857016) was made in 1964, and will stand up to most, but not all Plus-P ammunition that's out there. I tend to be conservative when picking ammunition, and as a result seldom have to have an older revolver tuned up. My personal belief is that a meaningful Plus-P load is called the .357 Magnum, but I seldom find the need.

Do enjoy your Colt. In my experienced opinion it is one of the best.
 
You folks are amazing! I never expected such a bevy of informational replies. Thank you all and thanks to High Road. Makes an old Marine feel good.!
 
While Old Fuff prefers to only shoot Speer Practice rounds (using only primers for propulsion) :neener:
please ignore his using the use of the term "357" and "+P" in the same sentence.

The +P of today is the same power as the standard rounds when your gun was made.

He is right that it is one of the best snubs ever made.


BTW, while +P is fine, avoid +P+ because their is no industry standard.
 
The Old Fuff will admit again that he's on the conservative side when it comes to matching ammunition to particular platforms. However one of my Detective Special's has been in regular service since the latter 1950's and hasn't required any special servicing and is still perfectly timed.

In any context I don't believe that Plus-P .38 Special ammunition offers any significant advantage on the terminal end, especially out of a (give or take) 2 inch barrel. Bullet configuration (such as full-wadcutter over round nose or hollow point’s driven at velocities where they don’t expand) often does. I stand by my suggestion that if one is worried that .38 Special isn't enough (and I'm not one of them) the answer is called; .357 Magnum in a larger revolver with at least a 3-inch barrel. Four is better. In a snubby I go to .44 Special.

Why mid-range wadcutters for home protection? Well under my present circumstances it’s unlikely I’d have to take a shot over 15 feet. Should I miss my intended target (which is unthinkable, but…) the bullet could go through a large single-pane window and across a two-lane street – on which there are houses with people in them. While hitting “a people” is improbable, a bullet hole in a house might upset both the homeowner and local police. This could invoke problems I don’t need or want. As the rule says, “don’t shoot unless you know what’s behind your intended target.” When circumstances change so does my choice of ammunition.

Of course my critics are free to make their own choices.
 
Hey Fuff,

Not trying to start an argument. After all, you clearly stated that this was your choice, and others are free to do what they want.

Did you download your 38 specials in 1964 from standard velocities?

Or did your DS fair just fine with the standard velocity of the time?

Did it digest Super Vel's and the like?

My point is that "+P" of today is not a hot round. And the DS is a stout little bugger. "+P" powered cartridges are what it was designed to shoot. There is no reason to move down to an even wimpier round.


(for anyone just joining THR: While I tease Old Fuff relentlessly, I have a huge amount of respect for his knowledge and willingness to share it.)
 
The 1928 Colt Detective Special...

sitting here on the table, is loaded with Federal factory loaded 148 gr, wadcutters.
I do not have many of the standard pressure 158 gr Lead Semi Wadcutters.
This gun is sentimental, and those LSWC reloads are as well.

Still, and keep in mind, I was born into, and spent time in a high-risk work, often carried standard pressure, 158 LSWC. Most often I carried S&Ws, from Model 36, to Model 10/64. Yes, some Colt DS were carried as well.

I myself am a mid 50's model,and was mentored that the .38spl was designed to hit POA/POI with the two loads I mentioned. I am responsible for every round discharged, and while it was best to use everything else mentored to not get into a situation, one needs to place a shot as quickly and effectively as one can, and if need be, with quick follow up shots.

Currently I am out in the country on about 90 acres. I have neighbors "over that-way" and "yonder over there". Still I don't want a missed round going toward the country road, or toward one of the farm buildings, or...

Back in the day in the work I did, being in a vehicle, getting to and from a vehicle, or being on the street walking to and from a office/business, or being inside a office/business setting...or
Basically the same things a person carrying concealed should think about.

I and mine often kept loaded guns in our office/building settings, including a lot of dedicated .38spls, and these were loaded with standard pressure 158 gr LSWC, and sometimes the 148 gr wad cutter.

Shot placement, and yes in our settings we had "shooting lanes" and "safe backstops" as part of the...err...decor if you will.

Not to mention a low pressure round, such as I am speaking of, works better on the ears, inside, especially inside a vehicle.

The only thing I have noticed about this '28 Colt DS is, it seems over the years the front sight has shrunk. I don't recall every putting it in the dryer.
*wink*

Sending best,

Steve
 
Can I join the Detective Special club? Attached is a pic of my Christmas present from my better half...a 2nd issue DS....1966 mfg.......
 

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Guillermo,
I'm sorry, but I don't have a camera in which to take pictures. And my excuse to not having one, is quickly becoming not an excuse.
"I'll wait until they come down in price..." *grin*

This one sports the black stocks, and does show [strike]wear[/strike] character. As said before, it is sentimental. One of these days I need to find some wood stocks for it. I also need to figure out how to "un-shrink" the front sight.

Oh be quiet Old Fuff, when you get to be my age, you will understand. *wink*
 
Old is New Again
By Billy H.

There was a day in modern law enforcement circles where officer felt well armed with a 5 or shot revolver and a few spare bullets on the belt. Far longer than police officers have been carrying semi-automatics, officers have been serving communities with distinction and these wheel guns were the trusted tools of choice to defend the beat.

When I started my law-enforcement career in the latter part of the 80’s, police departments were well on their way to issuing high-capacity wonder guns that were an advance over the restricted capacity of the issued side-arm that had been the steadfast companion in a cops holster for multiple centuries.

In the rough law enforcement town that I came up in, there was a group of old time detectives that were members of what was then called the 2 ½” Club. No doubt this name provoked a multitude of jokes unrelated to the true reason for the club name. The 2 ½” Club was a group of law enforcement officers, mostly seasoned Detectives, who qualified regularly, and at an expert level, with to a 2 ½” or less revolvers. From 25 yards to about 3 feet, these Officers were noted for regularly shooting a score far above those with semiautomatic pistols. Many of the Detectives carried J-framed five shot Chief Specials and some carried 2 ½” K frames in one configuration or another. A few of them owned and revered a shiny blue piece of carbon steel with elegant lines that had the advantage of one additional round of ammunition over a J-Frame. This was the Cold “Detective” Special.

First introduced in 1927, the Colt Detective Special was one of the first truly successful short barreled, swing-out cylinder revolvers that was mass-produced primarily for law enforcement and home defense. Early models of this pistol adorned the pockets of big city detectives and eventually federal agents nationwide. Today, seeing one of these pistols still in service is usually regulated to the fact that it had been passed down within a law enforcement family and now someone was carrying it as a backup gun or allowing such a piece to ride around in the glove box of the pickup truck should the odd varmint come along that needs to be dispatched. Those that have them, love them, and when seen by astute professionals, they are still a respected tool of the trade in Law Enforcement circles.
As the nation has seen an increase in the concealed weapons carrying, a trend of new, improved and handy revolvers have sprung up. Today’s current Smith & Wesson online catalog lists no less than 50 different configurations of 2 ½” or less revolvers in calibers from 22 to 45. It would appear the 2 ½” Club is alive and well.

Many still believe that the finest example of 2 ½” was the D- Frame Detective Special. For those who have carried and shot them, the Detective Special was, not without its detractors. Many criticized portion of the design was that the front sight would easily disappear, gray-out against the target, thus rendering the site picture difficult to acquire. Other complaints included sharp edges, especially around the hammer and a trigger stroke that was stiff and long. This got me to wonder what a modern design of the Detective Special would look like.

Thank God there are men like Bill Laughridge from Cylinder and Slide, and a few other talented gunsmiths, who don’t have to leave you in wonderland about just such a pistol. Bill and his Crew in Fremont Nebraska know how to improve upon a design and take a solid work horse of a pistol and turn it into a modern masterpiece suitable for any personal defense inventory.

I recently had the opportunity to send Laughridge a “Dick Special” that was a 1994 production run from Colt. I was relatively specific about what it was that I wanted, but also flexible enough to respect the knowledge of the given gunsmiths that Laughridge employs. My request was simple: improve the trigger, improve the sights, and remove the razor like factory edges that are found on a pistol that so often mark its owner while performing reloads. What I got back was nothing short of phenomenal.

About a week into the project, I received a call from one of Bill’s gunsmiths who explained that my request for a serrated front sight with a simple white insert would not be an adequate fix for my aging eyes. He explained to me that the angle of the front sight in relation to the rear sight notch would not facilitate a proper sight picture and the degree of improvement would be nominal. What he suggested was the removal of the existing front sight ramp and the installation of a dove tail mounted serrated ramp front sight with whatever type of insert I desired. After short discussion I opted for simple white dot. I know that with modern firearms today night sights are all the rage and the current crop of fiber-optic front sight tubes provides an improved sight picture, but hoping that this modification would retain some of the traditional lines, I opted for the simplistic. The result was a front sight that was fast to acquire and coupled with the lower rear sight notch, a flash site picture was effortlessly accomplished. Other improvements in the sights included the Parkerizing of the top strap and barrel with a dull finish applied to the top of the hammer. With these simple improvements, a non glare sight picture was insured.

Unique to the Colt design is a "bank-vault" lockup with the trigger and cylinder functioning in time to insure the shot is fired in time. Cylinder and Slide is one of the few remaining institutions that understands the importance of the trigger action as it applies to this lockup. Unlike the Smith & Wesson design that allows a shooter to stage the trigger before ignition, the stroke of the trigger on the D Frame Colt is a consistent pull that results in a shot being broken very close to full alignment of the cylinder hole and barrel alignment. A glossy, consistent trigger pull for this operation is a must. What started as a 13 pound double action pull returned as a decisive 10 pound trigger. It was void of any irregular areas in the take up of the trigger that are common with a factory DA revolver. The noticeable differences in the stroke of the trigger made holding the white dot front sight straightforward. “Front Sight, stroke, bang!” The single action pull was crisp and returned at about 3 pounds, having previously been a bit rigid and 4 pounds. I’ve felt lighter, but this being a duty gun, I stuck with a Standard Action Job and it has proven to be all this Investigator needs.

Bill and his crew took the right angles off of the trigger edges and polished its face to help further facilitate double action trigger work. It also took care of any chance of the finger bite that sometimes accompanies small DA revolvers. Like all pistols, triggers make or break good shooting. Bill and his crew have taken what was an average factory trigger and produced a superb configuration that best facilitates true double action defensive pistol work.
The only other significant improvement that related to accuracy for this short wheel gun was that the barrel crown was cut to 11degrees. Many would tell you that such a modification is not necessary at the distances in which a belly gun would be employed. Having investigated several shooting in my 21 plus year law enforcement career, I have learned one thing; you seldom get a chance to pick the fight. If you could, you would have much more than a handgun. Should you want to make an “x-ring” shot, why not have a pistol that will hold such a group? The accompanying photographs are proof positive that this modification is worth the effort.

With all sharp edges removed from the pistol and the charging holes of the cylinder chamfered for easy reloads, what was once a right angled, to some extent sharp instrument, has become a comfortable work of beauty, still retaining the traditional lines that make the Colt Detective Special a known for.

Finishing out the pistol is a pair of Walnut Boot Grips Spegel Boot Grips. This is a classic design that is an improvement in two piece hard rubber grips that came from the Colt factory. I find that the Colt grips would bite my shooting hand finger that rests under the trigger guard. The design and flexibility of the rubber cause the grip panels to move apart. Besides, “Blue Steal and Gun Leather” look all the better with find wood stocks.

The proof of the work is found at the range. Bill’s crew did not disappoint as the 148 grain and 125 +p shoots demonstrate. This little Colt is a Mustang in accuracy department and were my eyes better than what they are, you would see better than this.

I wasn’t old enough at the time to be a member of the 2 ½” Club. Today I look back on those men and understand that we owe a debt of gratitude to them that we may never be able to repay. Many of them have passed on, some from cancer, others just from time. None of them ever passed because of being outgunned. Have read and heard about more than one crook that tangled with members of this club, they I know from official police reports that those crooks could not say the same.
 
Lots of valuable info from all. Thanks! Taking into consideration the majority of replies I went to the 50 ft. indoor range today and fired off nine rounds of Remington 158grlead RN and 16 rounds of Remington 147gr targetmaster WC. You were right.- impact was right on the bull and some a little left - my fault. THat was enough as that little guy bites.Now. I'll clean it up and squirrel it away. Apreciate your time and effort to reply.
 
Another first year production DS owner, mine shows to be one of the first 300 made. It is mainly a safe queen as it was my dad's off duty gun, but when it does get out, it getS some mild 158 LSWC using either Unique, Universal, Bullseye or similar. Not taking any chances with something that old
 
Lots of valuable info from all. Thanks! Taking into consideration the majority of replies I went to the 50 ft. indoor range today and fired off nine rounds of Remington 158grlead RN and 16 rounds of Remington 147gr targetmaster WC. You were right.- impact was right on the bull and some a little left - my fault. THat was enough as that little guy bites.Now. I'll clean it up and squirrel it away. Appreciate your time and effort to reply.
Squirrel it away??? You mean you're not going to carry that great revolver? Six rounds of .38 Special is not a bad way to go IMO especially when those 6 rounds are in such a small package...
 
My DS's shot to point of aim with 158 grain bullets. Shot low with 148's and 125's.


Code:
[SIZE="3"][B]Colt Detective Special mfgr 1963   [/B] 24-Jul-99	T = 100 F !

158 gr LRN 3.5 grs Bullseye thrown, CCI primers mixed  cases		
					
Average 751 fps		
Standard Deviation 32 fps
Extreme Spread 90 fps
High 805 
Low 715		
Recorded shots 22		
					
158 LRN 3.5 grs Bullseye WSP Mixed cases	
 8-Jan-06 T = 52 F

Ave Vel =	675.9				
Std Dev =	18.6				
ES	96.18				
High	723.9				
Low	627.7				
N =	50				 
					
158 LSWC 3.5 grs Bullseye WSP Mixed cases	
8-Jan-06  T = 58 F

Ave Vel =	706.8				
Std Dev =	15.55				
ES	65.87				
High	742.9				
Low	677				
N =	50				 
					
				
[B]Colt Detective Special  mfgr 1974[/B] 

158gr LSWC 3.3 grs Bullseye CCI 500 primers, Dillon Loads

  17-Oct-93  T = 65-70F

Ave Vel =	682	fps			 
Std Dev =	33				
ES	96				
High	733			
Low	637			 	
N =	6				
					
					
[B]Colt Cobra 2" barrel[/B] 

30-Jan-05 	T = 42 F 

158 gr LRN 3.5 grs Bullseye thrown, Fed 100 primers mixed  cases	
					
Average                        696.6	
Std Dev	20.49	
Extreme Spread	72.93	
High	745.5		
Low	672.6		
13 recorded shots	
shoots point of aim when properly held, [/SIZE]
 
The Old Fuff will admit again that he's on the conservative side when it comes to matching ammunition to particular platforms. However one of my Detective Special's has been in regular service since the latter 1950's and hasn't required any special servicing and is still perfectly timed.

In any context I don't believe that Plus-P .38 Special ammunition offers any significant advantage on the terminal end, especially out of a (give or take) 2 inch barrel. Bullet configuration (such as full-wadcutter over round nose or hollow point’s driven at velocities where they don’t expand) often does. I stand by my suggestion that if one is worried that .38 Special isn't enough (and I'm not one of them) the answer is called; .357 Magnum in a larger revolver with at least a 3-inch barrel. Four is better. In a snubby I go to .44 Special.

Why mid-range wadcutters for home protection? Well under my present circumstances it’s unlikely I’d have to take a shot over 15 feet. Should I miss my intended target (which is unthinkable, but…) the bullet could go through a large single-pane window and across a two-lane street – on which there are houses with people in them. While hitting “a people” is improbable, a bullet hole in a house might upset both the homeowner and local police. This could invoke problems I don’t need or want. As the rule says, “don’t shoot unless you know what’s behind your intended target.” When circumstances change so does my choice of ammunition.

Of course my critics are free to make their own choices.
You, my Brother, are 100% correct!! The ONLY time you don't have to worry what is beyond your target is when it is ONLY bad-guys beyond your target!!
 
Don't squirrel it away anywhere. They are great little revolvers. Smaller than a Smith K-frame, but still handles like a mid-frame revolver. Put it to use.


Semper Fi!
 
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