Is this true?

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I disagree with a lot of what you posted.
Yes, these chips can be fragile but if molded into a polymer frame I suspect they'll be safe from solvents.
As for what's stopping them from requiring the the RFID chips now.....the NRA, the Republicans (and even Blue Dog Dems) in Congress, informed gun owners, informed buyers and a gun industry that is not going to cut it's own throat without a specific law from the government requiring these tags.
As for the legal means to do this....remember that SCOTUS affirmed that the 2nd Amendment is an individual right a couple of years ago......this ruling had a ONE VOTE majority. What's legal and illegal only depends on who is sitting on the courts at any given time.
 
Some of you guys are thinking gun registration, but what about detection?

It wouldn't take much for DHS to mandate RFID's on firearms so that guns can be detected easily at airports, bus stations, train stations, sporting events...etc...etc. A LOT cheaper than body scanners.
 
Okay.....some of you guys have convinced me that this RFID tag thing is just a crazy conspiracy.
These tags aren't being used in more and more places, technology stands still, the government is our friend, anti gunners never adopt new schemes, the Courts are always on our side and no new technology is ever adopted because older tech (or lack in the case of older guns) is still around.
Yep....you guys have changed my mind on the potential abuses of RFID tags and technology.
 
have to seen the process for chrome plating......pretty darn brutal......and almost guaranteed to kill an RFID.....

are you going to tell me they are going to pass a law saying i cant microwave food with my gun on........how much solvent i can use when cleaning my gun,.......that i cant ever chrome plate my gun.......?

.

They won't pass a law prohibiting those things, but that would be the net effect of a law that makes it a crime to intentionally disable, alter, or interfere with the functionality of that sort of chip.

I don't think our legal system would even care if you were arrested for disabling the tracking chip, and your affirmative defense was that you had work done on the gun, or used an especially harsh solvent to remove some stubborn fouling.
 
Patriotme- The problem is even under idle circumstances, the chips are still an electronic. Electronics are still prone to failure. Also, given how many guns are currently made and in circulation without said chips, it'd be useless.

I'm not saying someone wont get the idea to try to make it law, I'm just saying it won't work, and the majority of congress will see that with the help of the NRA. The chips, no matter where they're placed, how long they might last, aren't engraved in metal, they'll still wear out eventually, and stop working. A serial number...takes a lot longer to wear out, and if it wears out on it's own, odds are the gun probably won't be safe to operate anymore.

ETA: And as for a prefix, that's all well and good, but that means they'd also have to require no one ELSE uses that prefix at the beginning of their scanner codes. As for detection purposes, it's not illegal to bring a gun into an airport, just to be in a secure area with one. It also wouldn't negate all the other security we're forced to go through now, as they're looking for more than just guns.
 
It wouldn't take much for DHS to mandate RFID's on firearms so that guns can be detected easily at airports, bus stations, train stations, sporting events...etc...etc. A LOT cheaper than body scanners.

...and easily defeated by a foil baggie.
 
NOO3k
I agree that the law would be uselss but we've seen that before. Gun bans in DC and Chicago haven't helped reduce crime. Hi cap mag bans haven't worked. The "Assault Weapon Ban" was a joke. Registration has never worked. Ballistic fingerprinting has never solved a crime and supplying a spent casing with every handgun sale has done nothing to reduce or solve crimes in Maryland.
Most gun control laws aren't about reducing crime they're about more gun restrictions.
Yes, there are hundreds of millions of guns in circulation but we are still selling milllions per year so even if RFID tags were added next year you can see how many tens of millions of guns they could be in within a decade or two. A lot of people take the longer view.
I don't see any laws being passed anytime soon requiring RFID tags in firearms but I don't want them in my guns and I will contact a manufacturer that includes them in a gun that I'm interested in. While I haven't seen anyone include any requirements in new Bills it wouldn't be hard to see someone try to sneak something in those unread 2000 page Bills that we saw in 2009.
A few years or a decade ago there was no talk about ballistic fingerprinting. Now look at where we are. Who would have thought that there would be Bills before the legislatures in (Southern states) states requiring serialization and registration of ammo? RFID tags in firearms are a stupid idea and anti gunners latch onto stupidity like a dog with a bone.
We are lucky that at this time the anti gun movement seems to be split into several different camps and they are taking a scatter gun approach. Luckily nothing seems to be working for them at this time.
 
...and easily defeated by a foil baggie.

It doesn't block RFID. It will reduce the signature. Also, a strong amplified reader will negate the effects of foil. However, that's not to say you can't place your hypothetical RFID'd gun into a lead case and avoid being read. Of course, the lead case can be picked up by other methods. It then becomes a spy -vs- spy scenario. :)
 
It doesn't block RFID. It will reduce the signature.
Faraday cages absolutely do attenuate the RFID signal, and generally quite enough to defeat readers at a reasonable distance.

The RFID-based EZ-Pass system uses a metalized pouch to "hide" the transponder from the reader when the user doesn't wish to use the system. Shoplifters use metal foil lined bags to defeat RFID-based theft control systems.

Will a foil bag render an RFID unreadable from a centimeter away? Maybe not. But for gun detection, we're talking from a meter on up.

Also, a strong amplified reader will negate the effects of foil.
An amplified system will have greater range than an unamplified one. However, with the passive RFID tags that would be present in guns, not only does the reader's RF signal need to have enough energy left after the Faraday cage's attenuation to power the RFID chip, but the flea-power signal generated by the chip must now get back out of the cage with enough signal-to-noise ratio to be decipherable by the reader. This is, shall we say, a challenge.

However, that's not to say you can't place your hypothetical RFID'd gun into a lead case and avoid being read.
Lead has no particular advantage for RF shielding; copper or aluminum are usually used. You're thinking ionizing radiation, not RF. For RF, all we need is good electrical conductivity.
 
Yes, you are correct about RF shielding. I was thinking of radiation. So, one of those foil lined re-usable shopping bags would work.
 
You realize cell phones used to look like this right?
dynatac.jpg

The point is right now, there is no threat, but if some law were passed allowing these current inventory style RFID's to be used for tracking...now you have a bigger market for a specific need and we all know necessity is the mother of invention. It's not a stretch to see smaller, longer range tracking devices to be developed that were near impossible (or illegal through legislation) to remove.

Cutting off these little anti-gun ideas that don't seem to make any difference now are how you keep them from turning into something that does make a negative impact on our rights. What's easier...fixing a small leak in a pipe under the sink as soon as you notice it...or ripping up the floor after months or years of water damage from that seemingly unimportant leak?
 
At some point new guns will be required to have an RFID chip embedded for tracking purposes. Removing an RFID chip will eventually become a federal crime just like removing a serial number is now.
And spoofing them will be a "crime" as well? How will the status if the chip and whether it failed (oops!) or was destroyed be determined? What if I replace the chips with ones that show up as inventory control for crotchless panties?
click the link below to see a company promoting this technology
so? there's some idiot pushing microstamping, too
 
Explain the part about peal and stick ttolhurst!
I'm sure something that small does not need a Sears Diehard!
 
Jupiter
Re:
Dot%20wireles%20sticker.jpg
The difference between you and me is that I see that gadget and start thinking about where else I can put a few dozen of them.

Sneak them into the airport in a faraday cage and slip them in the carry-on luggage of the richest looking people (they have good lawyers to embarrass the clowns with the scanners)
Put one in every box of girl scout cookies ... or to perpetuate a stereotype, donuts
Stick them onto pigeons (might be tricky)
Put them into Gideon bibles every time I'm in a hotel room
Slip them into those stupid light-up shoes kids wear while browsing the shoe store
Slip them into designer purses
Put one in every box of blue gloves on the way to the TSA

There are endless possibilities for a group of pranksters to make the RFID detectors useless - if they're annoyed and/or organized enough
 
Hey bigfatdave, I can care less where/how they are used just as long as people have a choice in the matter in items they own. The technology has lots of legit uses.

/*
I make my living as a Computer Programmer and Database Administrator so I definitely understand the consequences of mis-information. I have to correct it daily.:)
*/
 
It's not an issue...yet. Maybe in 10 years.

Right now, the ones on Chiappa firearms can be defeated with a judiciously wielded dinner fork. But if that's too much for you, putting the grip panel for quick spin in the microwave will disable it. A quick spin in the microwave should fry just about all current RFID's for that matter.

RFID chips in firearms is one of those things that isn't an issue yet, but that might be eventually. It sure is fun to get people upset about it. I figured we'd see comments about cold dead hands before comments about the UN, though.

Has anyone patented a tinfoil lined pistol holster yet? Maybe I should speak to a patent attorney...
 
Patriot me said:
How hard would it to be for the government to require a special suffix or prefix for these codes?

Exactly, its just a law away. All firearm RFID codes must have them, by order of Congress, enforced by the ATF, violation of which becomes a federal firearms felony.
Just as serial numbers were originally meant to help with inventory, for the benefit of the manufacturer and the consumer, and only later became a mandated tool of government.

bigfatdave said:
there's some idiot pushing microstamping, too

Yes and it was passed into law in California, with a little problem keeping it from being implemented yet, and some years into the future.
But it is the law.



bigfatdave said:
The difference between you and me is that I see that gadget and start thinking about where else I can put a few dozen of them.

Which under such law would be quite likely a criminal act. Yes you can commit tons of criminal acts in protest. Along with various forms of civil disobedience. You may however also find yourself a felon.
If the law states a certain prefix-suffix belongs to firearms there also won't be a bunch of companies illegally producing those RFID tags, and if someone is illegally interfering with federal and state criminal investigations (yes if it annoys them they will find some investigation it can be claimed to have hampered) they will go to the known manufacturers of them and look at their records.
Who is getting all these chips with firearm prefix-suffixes?
Now you could make your own, but that adds an additional step.




The EZ-pass and similar pay systems show it would be quite desirable to government to have such readers throughout society, in the overpasses of freeways, in the doorways of government buildings, in city owned structures like like posts etc along sidewalks or wherever else it is found convenient to build them into.
It would take less money than your typical city owned surveillance or red light camera system to install them in city owned stoplights or street lights around the city.
A lot coverage for minimal investment.
Combined with a law that all law abiding people had RFID, you could readily track legally owned firearms as they moved about in society.
Sure criminals would defeat the system, just as they do today, and just as they defeat serial numbers and other things. That has nothing to do with government controlling the law abiding citizen that will not be illegally breaking their chips, removing them, and otherwise violating federal or state law.

Technology gets better and improves as time goes on, and there is already higher end RFID chips. When the product they will be in costs hundreds of dollars they can afford to use or legally require ones that cost cents or even a whole dollar more than the ones used to track $10 shirts in a store.
There is also already readers, including those used maliciously that read from much further than the standard distance.
Standard distances will also improve as technology progresses.


These are very much a potential threat. Just because the threat has not materialized yet does not mean you should not be vigilant to keep it from coming to pass.
Don't let them become standard like serial numbers, don't let government see them as standard and then pass a law requiring them as they did with serial numbers.
You control your future. Sticking your head in the sand and saying it won't ever happen and is just a conspiracy theory won't stop it. Only you will.
 
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