Duty and carry gun philosophies

I think carrying a backup on duty is very wise. I would not carry a weapon that hand a manual of arms different than that of my duty weapon. If the duty gun has no safety, such as a Glock, than the backup shouldn't either. In a situation, I would not want to have my backup operate differently. Which model of M&P do you carry? You might consider getting an M&PCompact. They can use the same magazines as the full size.

How do you plan on carrying your backup? Ankle? Smartcarry?

In the day I carried a Colt auto 45. Still do.As a smaller carry piece, lots of the time it's my little 32 auto colt. I guess I'm old school but it's worked for me. Once, over yonder, the big Colt saved my tail section so I prolly am just a bit biased.Most of the rough guys I know use some form of 45 for their , work.

You may consider something such as an LCP, LC9, something from Kahr etc. The key will be picking a gun that fires, reloads, and in which malfunction can be addressed similarly to your duty gun. Reloading a revolver is too different from reloading a semi. A backup with a safety shoots too differently than a duty gun without one.

So long as you learn one way of shooting, reloading, clearing malfunctions etc; and can then apply that to both guns the same way, you should be safe.

With our department off duty carry was mandated with a few exceptions, and a BUG while on duty was encouraged. In any era (wheel gun or semi auto) our duty weapon was too large to carry off duty, so a weapon of similar design was/is the logical choice. In my day my BUG was also a 6 shot .357 that would accept the same speed loaders as my duty gun, and today the Glock line offers that same choice using interchangeable magazines. The 17/26 or 21/27 combinations are common choices among LEO's.

LD

Issued duty weapon - Glock Model 22 .40
Off-duty weapon - Glock Model 27 .40 (duty as backup too)
Backup weapon - Smith & Wesson Model 642 .38 Spl

Our Agency we are issued Glock 22 & Glock 23 duty weapons that we are required to carrywhen on-duty. We are ENCOURAGED to carry off-duty.

Off the clock I carry Colt XSE Commander .45, Glock 19 9mm, Les Baer Custom .45, or Browning Hi Power. I qualify with off-duty weapons at lest once per year.
The Agency's Glock 22, my Glock 27, & my Smith J Frame, I qualify four times per year as required by Agency policy.

Not a cop, so no duty weapon for me. Do carry concealed.

I carry a Glock 26 (baby 9mm). It's been 100% reliable over a few thousand rounds and I shoot it well. Other advantages for me:

-perfect medium between size/weight, capacity, and power for me. Anything bigger gets more difficult to conceal, anything smaller gives up capacity, shootability, and/or power. Different people will find that happy medium with other sizes, calibers, etc.
-same manual of arms as my house gun (glock 34)
-allows me to carry with the smaller 10 rounder for concealability and 17 rounder for a reload. Also allows me to use same magazines as the 34, so fewer to buy
-same caliber as my 34, so I only have to stock up on one caliber of the expensive defensive ammo

If I were starting over, might have gone with the M&P as I like the ergonomics better or the 20 and 29 as I like the 10mm round better. As it is, I have so much training time invested in the 26/34 and money tied up in the guns, magazines, holsters, etc. I don't see enough of an improvement to change.

Sounds like you are getting some very good training. I'd go with the 1911 for the extra training, but the MP 45 is a good choice too.

Maybe give your training a little time to soak in before making too many decisions.

A back-up piece isn't redundant.

My duty weapon has either been chambered in 45acp or 10mm.

Off duty CCW - 10mm -1911.

12-34hom.

Your work as a fish & game officer is likely to have you wading through streams, so ankle carry of a BUG is probably out.

On duty - Springfield loaded - Great gun, it's been worked over by Springfield and it's 100% reliable regardless of ammo, very accurate, and quite rugged. I can carry anything I want but this one works well for me.
---Now, that being said, even though I am a die hard 1911 guy I am looking very seriously at making a change to the FNP-45 Tactical. It makes me think that it is what the 1911 would be had it evolved into a more modern gun. The balance, grip angle, and general feel and "pointability" remind me very much of my 1911s. It can be carried cocked and locked but has DA capability but still has a surprisingly good SA trigger for a polymer gun. It is red dot sight ready and fully ambidextrous. And, of course, the 15 + 1 capacity can't be ignored and the loaded weight is less than a loaded steel 1911. I know it's blasphemy but those specs just can't be ignored.

Off duty - Clark Meltdown Colt Compact - I like the 1911 platform and I like the same manual of arms for on and off duty guns. This one is easily carried and concealed, 100% reliable, and very accurate, as you would expect of a Clark cusom gun.

BUG -Custom scandium framed 9mm S&W snubby - I prefer a revolver for a back up, fewer functional worries than a small auto. This one is lightweight, has more power than a .38 but lots less recoil and muzzle blast than a .357. Moonclips allow fast and easy reloads and makes reloading with one hand more manageable. Laser grips mean that I can put rounds on target even if I can't line up the sights. I carry it in my off hand cargo pocket.

Full size M&P .40 in IWB. No thumb safety, no magazine safety, Fresh trijicon's front and back. Clean otherwise.

Flawless function, I can core out the silhouette's head at 50 feet consistently. Great comfort even over extended shooting sessions, I'm around 5k rounds or so with many brands of ammo, and my own loads. It eats everything.

Mind you I'm mostly a wheelgun guy, I bought a polymer CCW because my youngest isn't out of diapers, and I don't want Pee on good steel. but I'm honestly surprised how well I like the tupperware.

I'm still better with a Model 10.

When I wasin uniform I carried a 5" 1911, and had a Colt Defender 3" 1911 on my ankle. It wasn't so big as to be cumbersome, and in a pinch I could use the full-size mags in it.

Taurus 1911rl as a duty and glock 19 as off duty, both work for me.

Well, a couple thoghts. If you can carry a back-up DO! Some department require it and I am in line with that. As for what to carry, be it duty, off duty/concealed etc...Those are very personal choices. I think that the M&P line as a whole is excellent. The M&P45 in perticular is a superb shooter...one of my favorite 45s. I may be mistaken, but I don't believe that the M&P45C is compatible with M&P45 FS mags. I know that the 9mm, .40SW and .357Sig are, but for some reason I remember someone telling me that it doesn't work with the 45. Just something to look into before you go and spend money on it. Personally, I don't like carrying a SAO gun openly on duty. I realize that with the proper holster and retension training, it really shouldn't matter, but I am personally against it. However, carry whatever you shoot best. IF that is 1911, then get yourself the best 1911 that you can shoot well that you can afford. If money is no issue (lucky you) I would suggest the KnightHawk GRP REcon...simplely the best combat 1911 made. If it was up to me, personally, and it had to be .45ACP, I would probably go with either a Sig P220R or an FN45 USG. This is a very personal but also very critical decision for you, good luck and practice LOTS!

Walther PPS 9mm IWB with a backup mag in a front pocket. I decided on the Walther after inspecting it in person. It had a good balance and with almost full rails I knew it would be reliably consistent, which would make it accurate in my hands. I carry using Remington Golden Sabre's. I carry a backup Ruger LCP because I own it and it's not any kind of a burden whatsoever to put it into my pocket. If I'm in need of deep concealment then I'll leave the PPS at home and just carry the LCP. It's such an easy second gun, point and shoot, no safety to worry about.

If you do go with a 1911, don't skimp out (and I have never had good luck with Paras). I love 1911's and it would be hard not to recommend one....but I just got an M&P9 that I love. M&P's are reliable and accurate, but the trigger typically needs some work. Perhaps your agency will allow you to have an Apex DCAEK installed (about $90 for the kit I believe)?

All in all, I would stick with a .45, be it a 1911 or an M&P (or an FNP45 USG; a great shooting, hi-capacity .45!)

Dude, your kit is bigger than an infantryman has. But take the AR for sure. I'm guessing you are a game warden? Good for you, I hope you are a good one.

I'm not a cop, but I do carry. I tended to gravitate towards two pistols: the G27 and G29 in a Milt Sparks VM2. Not only does it hide well, it carries well. I can wear it all day and not have any problems. I tended to wear the G27 more and got pretty comfortable with it, but only because I load and shoot a lot of 10mm and run out of ammo often.

I feel more comfortable with the 10mm, but also know that the .40 is more than sufficient if I do my part. They are small, comfortable, and I can draw it pretty fast. I guess that is most important for any carry piece next to reliability, clearing the holster and putting it into action.

Carrying a full size pistol all the time gets kind of old, especially concealed. You'll see, I think everyone has to learn the hard way to a point, but take advice for what it is worth when you can. Getting the J-frame isn't a bad idea either. That 340PD is THE carry piece. It weighs nothing, and if I had to carry as a cop I'd definitely have that on me somewhere. As a civilian, I don't get into trouble, have enemies, or find myself in situations where I feel undergunned, and so I don't feel the need for a backup, but if I did it would definitely be that 340PD with 125gr. GD mags.

You should carry and use what you are comfortable with, what you practice the most with. If you've only got 2000 rds. downrange, then you still have latitude in my opinion to select whatever you feel comfortable with. I'd also get all the training and shooting schools I could get away with, I did that in the army. For me, the M4 will always be the first choice because of this --I'll never get more rounds downrange with anything else in my lifetime.

Sounds funny, but a firearm is like an artist's paintbrush. It is just a tool, and in the hands of the unprepared it is just a stick. But in the hands of someone who spent time working with it in various ways, it becomes far more, it becomes an extension of the individual.

Since you can pick and choose, you need to pick something you actually enjoy shooting and feel comfortable with. At least I would. Good luck.

I have to carry on duty what they give me, which is a G22. I do not have to carry it off-duty. I have to qualify with what I carry, though, and it must be at least .38 caliber. For off-duty, I have no less than 5 in regular rotation, all of which are wheelguns. For the most part, it is either a Colt Agent in my front pocket or a SP101 in a leather pancake on my belt....On duty, I do not carry a BUG, but can if I choose.

Ragnar Danneskjold said:

I think carrying a backup on duty is very wise. I would not carry a weapon that hand a manual of arms different than that of my duty weapon. If the duty gun has no safety, such as a Glock, than the backup shouldn't either. In a situation, I would not want to have my backup operate differently. Which model of M&P do you carry? You might consider getting an M&PCompact. They can use the same magazines as the full size.

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As is usually the case, I find it difficult to disagree with Ragnar. Carrying a BUG is something I wouldn't hesitate to do, and ensuring it has an identical MOA (and the same caliber) as my primary duty weapon is something I wouldn't overlook.

Good luck to you, and be safe. Congratulations on the position.

There are a lot of good choices to choose from. In the field you'll probably get into situations where two backups will make sense, one on your person and the third in your vehicle.

I like 1911s and 357mags, but in your situation, perhaps a SIG P220, rail, (including SAO) and a snub in 44 Special/WFNs or Keith style bullet.

Enjoy and have fun.

I'm not a cop and never will be one, so ignore the comment if you will. That said, I would sign up for as much training as possible.

The only other thing I would add is that if I were a cop, I would definitely carry a bug, and it would be a jframe sized airweight revolver in 38. I would make sure that gun was with my 24/7 on or off duty no matter what else I had around and where I was (ie, in my house, taking a shower, it would be there in the bathroom). From reading various writings from ayoob, cirillo, etc, I think the jframe revolver (of lcr) is about a perfect of a bug as has ever been invented. Maybe I just drank too much of the coolaid.

I am a cop. I also had to buy my own stuff, so I had some latitude.

For my duty gun, I have a M&P 9 Pro Series with a Streamlight TLR-1 mounted on it in a Safariland SLS holster. I like the Pro, it has a better trigger than stock M&Ps.

For my back up, I have a M&P 9c. This way I have the same manual of arms and magazine interchangeability I carry it in a generic holster under my left arm on my body armor strap. I also had some of my buttons removed and replaced with velcro so I could get to it in a hurry if I need it. My department did allow me to get the Apex Tactical DCAEK installed, and it has a better trigger than my duty gun.

I wear heavy boots, and spend a lot of time on foot patrol, therefore I found ankle carry to be painful at the end of a shift.