Good general purpose rifle

Tactical lever action in .30-30 Winchester

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and there I thought you were trying to be funny...






I think I threw up a little... this is the sign that "tactical" crap has gone too far...

I think I threw up a little...

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You're right!

That totally needs a red dot...

BSW

Tactical doesn't necessarily mean black plastic and rails. I think you need to re-evaluate the definition of the term. Most on this forum would say tactical is a mindset (software), the weapon is hardware. A red dot on a wood/blued Marlin 336 will just be as effective if not more than Mossberg's tactical 464.

I wouldn't look down on a .30-30 rifle or pistol calibre lever action rifle in the hands of a trained operator if I were you...

I think most AK's can do 3 MOA. That is right where my WASR is at. And even if some AK's are a little less accurate than that, it isn't that big of a deal for the application you are talking about.

Honestly, there are a lot more 3 MOA rifles than there are 3 MOA shooters... especially from field positions and under pressure. I'd say if you have a 3 MOA rifle and can CONSISTENTLY shoot it to the mechanical limits of it's accuracy from field positions, you are better off than 99% of the shooters in this country.

You know, a man-sized target is 20" wide, give or take. That means a 3 MOA rifle should be able to hit that size target to out past 600 yards, if the shooter's skills are up to the job. Well, an AK might not be terribly effective at that range just because the bullet is going so slow by then and has probably lost stability, but the point being, do you really need that standard of accuracy for the role you're talking about?

I think an AK would be great for your stated needs. Most are at least 4 MOA rifles (I've never seen these supposed 6 MOA ones).

You say he wants a low-magnification optic... for that rifle and that role, I would go with a NO-magnification optic. IMO, an Aimpoint red dot sight in a low ring on an Ultimak rail is the perfect optics setup for an AK. It is super fast to get on target, and sits low enough to co-witness with the iron sights and means you don't need a cheek riser.

An SKS is just a bi-atch to scope, and why put a $300 scope on a $350 rifle? That doesn't make sense. Where does this guy live? Ask him the longest sight line on his property. If it's under 200 yards, a 5MOA rifle will kill deer for him, if he does his part.
A VZ-58 or AK-variant will serve quite well. No need for anything else as a rough, low-maintenance rifle.

Saiga

Firearms is one of those areas where you do not want to skimp on quality just because of price. A $500 AK can be good if you find a man willing to make a generous deal. Buying from stores will probably preclude this, as new guns are pretty far out of the budget. A large gun show with a number of private sellers is your best bet, but don't let him buy until he's given the gun a good inspection. Remember: if a weapon is really cheap, there's a reason for that.

if your brother has his sights set on a wasr then I would recommend getting one with the wood stocks, they kick like a mule(and I shoot bolt battle rifles) but thy allow for a better cheek weld than wire stocks or side folders. the cheek weld on mine is good with iron sights but my front sight is canted(one of the things to look for when you get a wasr) and I couldn't ever get it zeroed so I went with a reddot mounted on the handguard but it sits a lot higher and I end up with a goofy canted chinweld. I am in the process of using paracord wrapping on my folder stock to try and create a better cheek weld but need to get more paracord first so I dont know how it'll turn out yet. mine holds minute of milk jug shooting prone so it's got hunting level accuracy if you keep it to 100 yards.

I had an SKS, sold it to get a Saiga.

A: It's new.

B: It can be 'converted' later.

C: It's dead reliable. (My SKS didn't feed hollowpoint or JSP ammo)

D: You can put a mount and scope on it.

E: It's lighter.

F: Far more parts available for it.

G: It's $300.

I think your brother needs to reconsider his budget.

I mean, if he can only afford $500 for a rifle, how does he expect to afford to shoot said rifle once he acquires it? Has he considered the cost of ammunition? What about the cost of optics, mags, and other accessories necessary?

Not to mention an AK is an awful choice for a HD gun, but that topic is for another thread...

Bottom line is, I've seen FAR too many new shooters set themselves low budgets, buy cheap guns and then end up unhappy with them. They always end up spending more in the long run money for the right gun, after they've lost time & money getting rid of the cheap gun.

I'd recommend your brother wait until he can afford the right gun for him.

very well written on the Mini-30. very accurate information there.

Call me crazy but I would never think of a semi-accurate semi-auto as a genral purpose rifle, having owend several centerfire rifles that would shoot sub MOA day in day out I would never dream of takeing a 3 MOA rifle into the woods. Who needs 30 rds when the fist one always does the job? If I were to get a semi auto as a genral use firearm it would have to be highly accurate as well.

You know, ALOT can be said for a Mosin. You can pick on up, scope it, and grab a case of ammo for less than the starting price of an AK. With a cheap recoil pad they're not too punishing to shoot either.

Going with a Mosin may also leave room in the budget for a .22 semi automatic which is all kinds of cheap fun and good practice.

Are good iron sights important? You might know about Tech Sights. The leaf sight was removed and can be reinstalled.
The front sight hood aligns nicely as a second circle inside this new rear aperture circle. The rear sight is adjusted to the bottom, to prevent any high shots.

You might not believe the major improvement to my Norinco SKS' accuracy with this.
I'm not a trained shooter, but just got a group with five shots mostly touching from 50 yards (1 & 1/2" diameter cluster) at the center of the Shoot-N-See target. There were nine total shots, and the only firm gun support was under the front (no sand bags or mounts etc).

I've seldom done this with the aperture sights of my Enfield #4s and Service Grade Garand from 50 yards. The typical Norinco SKS is now an entirely different rifle, and this is with Monarch or Molf ammo. Luckily most shots are into a river bottom, and when leaning the rifle on a tree branch, very easy to repeatedly hit a small Coke bottle from 30-40 yards. Imagine an AK clone with Tech sights-check "Nutnfancy" on Youtube.

I know you said rifle, and I don't want to dismiss that, but I would suggest a pump shotgun to be the best all purpose.

Shoots slugs to 150 yards with a rifled barrel. Can be scoped also. With a smooth bore you can shoot slugs with good accuracy past 100 yards. Buckshot for defense, bird shot for small critters.
You can get a Maverick 88 12 gauge for $150.00 new. It is a Mossberg 500 with plastic furniture, and the parts are made in Mexico by Mossberg, but assembled in USA. A rifled barrel costs $100, and a 18.5" Home Defense barrel is $80. You're still way under $500.00.

I have out shot many people with my $150 12 gauge Mav 88 at the trap shoots. I have also hit clay pigeons on the 100 yard berm with smooth bore barrels shooting plain old slugs using just the beads for sights.

I will not go into the which is better, and people want what they want, but if you break down your post you will see that all signs point to 12 gauge shotgun.

We went shooting this last weekend, and I took the new AR-15 Dissaptor, the 44 Mag, the 44 Special, the Marlin Model 60, and the Mav 88. The most fun I had was shooting the Mav 88 and the .44 Mag.
W-8+
e shot clays at 100 yards with the 12 gauge. We shot clays that were thrown with a hand thrower. I shot everything from 3" slugs to bird shot. That includes 3" steel shot, 3" #4 buck shot, 2 3/4" 00 buck. There was a door at the range. A metal door. We shot it from 5 feet with 3" #4 buckshot. I blew a hole the size of my head in the door.
Anyway. What I am trying to say is the $800 AR ended up sitting on the sidelines while t+he $150 shotgun blew $41T up.

Enough already.. I know. Sorry. All signs point to shotgun.

A marlin 336 or SKS ( if you can find a cheap one ) would be an excellent intermediate general purpose/utility rifle that would be very at home propped up behind a door in the house or behind the seat of your truck or trunk of your car. Heck my favorite truck gun/utility rifle was a Ruger 10/22 with a butler creek folding stock I've slayed a ton of varmints around the homestead with that set up even though it was a lowly .22 it still was a very versatile setup.

Remington 7400

They are only inexpensive because the com-bloc nations built too many of them.

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inexpensive was back when they first showed up here for 60bucks or so... not what they are charging for them now-a-days...

Not to mention an AK is an awful choice for a HD gun, but that topic is for another thread...

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I could debate all day about its virtues as an HD gun, but I do agree with the points about new shooters not thinking about attendant budgets for things such as magazines and ammunition. Truthfully, about the only guns his brother could afford with any sort of shooting budget which could work for HD is an SKS or a 91/30. I have a bit of an odd opinion about defensive weaponry, which is already well known, though I do appreciate your opinions.

Okay, here's another thought: Del Ton AR-15 M4 Rifle Kit for $450, or upper receiver for $380. I see stripped lowers for $100, or lower assemblies for $200 all the time.

So your brother can have an AR for < $600. Add another $150 for a CMMG .22LR conversion kit, and he might actually be able to afford to shoot it.

http://www.classicarms.us/

I'm going to throw out the M1 Carbine.
For the most part they go over the 500 limit but I got mine after a good deal of searching for 550.

Short, handy, light and fires a caliber which will do everything up to big game hunting.

Just thought I'd throw in my bit.