Which do you prefer and why?

My personal experience is that when you stick to the books and use the same powder, the heavier bullets tend to recoil less. This isn't to say that you can't get a 165gr load to recoil less by loading it relatively lighter. But if you, say, worked each one to a max load, then the 180 would recoil less. If you worked them down to the lowest possible load that would cycle the gun, you would probably end up with the 180 winning, again. The 180 could produce the momentum to cycle the slide without producing as much gas.

Now if you're trying to compare loads that produce equivalent kinetic energy, then the 165 will probably win. But when you load them both to equivalent kinetic energy, you would be reigning in the 165 a bit compared to the 180 gr loading.

Actually, it's the other way around. A lighter bullet will produce less felt recoil than a heavier one. You can't change the laws of physics.

As for which bullet to use, use the one you like best. If one is more accurate than the other, use the accurate bullet. If the felt recoil is easier to handle with one bullet over the other, use the one that produces less felt recoil.

Give them a try before you decide. Buy a few boxes of 100 each, load them up and go shooting...

I agree with Gloob. The laws are not changing you just don't understand how they are working. Sorry for the short answer but it is to much to type on a phone.

Are you talking to me when you said I don't understand the laws of Physics? Really??

The gun recoils least when needed most.

There are many factors at work in perceived recoil; a bullet weight difference of <10% is not all that significant.

For jacketed bullets,my XD shoots the 160grn with better than me accuracy.Now I shoot my cast 175 lrnfp at lowest charge,no real felt recoil.

ArchAngelCD said:

Are you talking to me when you said I don't understand the laws of Physics? Really??

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Talking to you yes but that isn't what I said.

As far as "laws of physics" I can't argue with ArchAngelCD.

But..

Shooting about 2000 rounds of .40 factory rounds through three different pistols in the past year, (two XDs and an M&P) the 180s are easier for me to recover from than the 165s.
I can't explain it either, but it is what I've noticed.

In 40 cal., I only shoot a glock 22 so I don't know if this will help. But, I like the 165 grain plated round nose/flat point Rainier leadsafe bullets with 4.0 Titegroup......

The Dove

ArchAngelCD said:

Actually, it's the other way around. A lighter bullet will produce less felt recoil than a heavier one. You can't change the laws of physics.

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Generally speaking, I find heavier bullets recoil more. However I just did a calculation, and found the 165 bullets will recoil more than 180s in a 40 S&W. This is one of the cases where the heavier bullet has enough drop in velocity to counteract the increase in bullet weight.

While recoil is subjective, Newton's "equal and opposite" is still valid. My pick would be 165's for practice/range use but keep 180's in the truck. It's easy to use the same powder, but different charge weights, to load them both bullets.

180 will be softer. But the right powder can make a big difference.

I respect and listen to "The ArchAngel" when it comes to physics. However, I do agree with Walkalong when it comes to felt recoil. The heavier bullets push hard while the lighter bullets at a faster speed are snappier. I prefer the heavy push even if it calculates out to greater recoil. For me, I just like the heavy for caliber bullet.

I'm not up on 40s&w, But when it comes to .357 mag I have experienced this, a max loaded 125gr bullet has more perceived recoil than max loaded 158gr or 180gr bullet.
maybe its just me

Are we comparing actual recoil measured in ft/lbs or type of felt recoil? I too prefer the "push" of a 230gr bullet fired in a .45 Auto to the "snap" of a 124gr bullet fired in a 9mm even though the .45 Auto will produce more recoil in energy.

There needs to be enough recoil to cycle the firearm, so lighter bullets need to move faster to compensate. So while the muzzle energy maybe similar the impulse or felt recoil is different.

Energy is formed through a combination of bullet size interacting with charge. That is why if you read the reloading recipe guide books, less powder is needed to produce equal energy as bullets get heavier. I know for a fact, I prefer the thump of a 180 to the shock of a 155 grn bullet, as I shoot my sig p229. It seems to me, that less powder means less shock. Where as in the case of a heavier bullet requiring less powder, more of the recoil is transferred out of the muzzel than back on my aging wrist. For childlike superficial reasons, I still handload lighter pills, I like the idea of higher total energy. It always amazes me that often, like the .40 its tiny bullets I see nobody shoot that produce the most energy. I think you should find one load you like and use it for everything. I really like the 165/w231 combo.

JohnhenrySTL said:

Energy is formed through a combination of bullet size interacting with charge. That is why if you read the reloading recipe guide books, less powder is needed to produce equal energy as bullets get heavier. I know for a fact, I prefer the thump of a 180 to the shock of a 155 grn bullet, as I shoot my sig p229. It seems to me, that less powder means less shock. Where as in the case of a heavier bullet requiring less powder, more of the recoil is transferred out of the muzzel than back on my aging wrist. For childlike superficial reasons, I still handload lighter pills, I like the idea of higher total energy. It always amazes me that often, like the .40 its tiny bullets I see nobody shoot that produce the most energy. I think you should find one load you like and use it for everything. I really like the 165/w231 combo.

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I would have worded it a little different but good explanation.

For childlike superficial reasons, I still handload lighter pills, I like the idea of higher total energy. It always amazes me that often, like the .40 its tiny bullets I see nobody shoot that produce the most energy

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I very nearly purchased a couple boxes of 135 gr Nosler HP's to play with the other day. Now I'm sad I left them off my order. (Went with the Zero 165's JHP's, instead). Your post triggered the pretty pictures of exploding watermelons I had dancing in my head.

But I stuck with my original plan. Keep all my 40SW loads the same. Plinking, practice, or trouble, I want them to handle the same and be ready for bear. Small bears, at least.

I still have a ton of 180 gr Noslers loaded up. I've found them real pussycats over a max charge of AutoComp, compared to the 150-155 grain bullets. Course, maybe Hodgdon's data is just a little bit skewed between these loads. But that's my experience, so far. If Hodgdon's reloading data is correct, then both of these loads have almost identical momentum, so I think the laws of physics would be sitting on the fence in this particular case.

Depends on the powder you pick. If you use a light bullet, you need a powder that will fill the case as full as possible, for consistent ignition and velocity=accuracy.

Bigger bullets, less powder for the same result, and more time to burn, since the heavier bullet won't leave as early, so you can use a slower powder.

Powder speed is a big deal for recoil. In particular, factory ammo, at times, have seriously, cheap, mismatched powder, to the task at hand, for a premium price.

Depends on the gun, too. The following experience was with factory 180g Gold Dot bullets.

My Kahr CW40 recoils pretty hard with 180's. I have not shot 165's. Also my friend's Glock (model # escapes me) has a pretty stout kick, even though its a bit bigger than the Kahr.

I can shoot the .40 just fine and prefer it to any 9mm, but my friend got rid of his Glock 40 and bought a 9. (Recoil motivated)

I bought a Ruger SR40. Now there's a gun that shoots sweet and perceived recoil is less than my friend's Glock 9mm. Figure that one out with physics! My conceal carry instructer was also amazed at the lack of typical .40 caliber recoil in the Ruger. Just works. How? I haven't a clue.

As far as CC goes, I'd rather defend myself with a 230gr .45, but when I carry a .40 it has 180gr. bullets in it.

Ruger normally have a stiff recoil spring that keeps you from felling the slide snap back as hard.