Permanent resident aliens have second amendment rights too

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JohnPierce

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In Fletcher v. Haas, the United States District Court for the District of Massachusetts held that Permanent resident aliens are included amongst ‘the people’ as the term is used in the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution.
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The Second Amendment challenge was based upon the argument that since the firearms identification card is a pre-requisite to simple possession of a firearm in the home for self-defense, any barrier to acquisition of a firearms identification card touches upon what the Supreme Court in District of Columbia v. Heller described as the ‘core’ of the Second Amendment.

(Excerpt) Read more
 
In this article I analyze the court's ruling in the latest SAF victory in Massachusetts in some detail.
 
My issue here is not as much the permanent resident alien part of the equation, but the fact that Mass requires a firearms "card". To me that is unconstitutional.

As far as resident alien, I am split on them having full rights and protections of the Constitution for which they have yet to claim their allegiance.
 
The court handled that by requiring that the resident aliens have established sufficient connections with the nation. Before then, they are effectively on a sliding scale.
 
My last LT is a permanent resident alien who is working on her citizenship. The process can be long and expensive, and she alternates between saving money for that and paying bills. She also has no problem going through the process, and is happy to do it. She also has her own Glock 19, same as the issued sidearm.
 
I'm split on illegal aliens having firearms, on one side I believe anyone who is mentally sound should be able to own a firearms, no matter what country their from. But then again they don't pledge allegiance to our nation.
 
My last LT is a permanent resident alien who is working on her citizenship. The process can be long and expensive, and she alternates between saving money for that and paying bills.

Those who play by the rules pay $1070 just for a green card, plus the travel for the interview. Depending on which country they are from, just to get a HLS approved visa will cost them somewhere between $300 and $400 and a wait of 6 to 8 months.

The forms they have to fill out are pretty straight forward once they know what forms they actually have to submit...but...that can be like many things when dealing with the government; it is not always easily discernible especially when English is not their mother tongue. People do not understand a quandary until they go through the process themselves.

I'm split on illegal aliens having firearms, on one side I believe anyone who is mentally sound should be able to own a firearms, no matter what country their from. But then again they don't pledge allegiance to our nation.

That ^ is a good point; key word being illegal. Think of a wife married to a US serviceman (legal) who has no desire to become a US citizen. Where she and her husband have residence in two countries. In her country she can own a firearm for home protection and the husband can own in his country. It seems one blanket law or statement is the easy thing ( and is made or done often) to do, but does not always serve the interest of the few.
 
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I am going to be the bad guy here. I believe that only citizens of the United States of America have the rights to our Constitutional Rights............
 
Note that the ruling here only applies to LEGAL resident aliens. It did not reach the issue of illegal aliens. Although I personally believe that self-defense, as a pre-existing right, properly belongs to all people.
 
I am going to be the bad guy here. I believe that only citizens of the United States of America have the rights to our Constitutional Rights

Can understand the emotion yet...Even back in my day many in the armed services of these United States were not citizens; they joined and expected to receive expedited citizenship. I would like to think anyone who chooses to take up residence in the USA would at least have the opportunity to protect their residence/wife/husband/child. The answers are not easy but when they are classified as a "LEGAL Citizen" then all the laws of the land apply IMO.
 
The Constitution does not "give" us rights; it protects inalienable rights that are given to us by our Creator. To that end, the right to self-defense (or free speech, etc.) is not pendant on citizenship.
 
I am going to be the bad guy here. I believe that only citizens of the United States of America have the rights to our Constitutional Rights............

I find that humorous, considering who wrote the Constitution.... a bunch of treasonous felons who had just completed a violent overthrow of their government who were "citizens" of America only because they claimed themselves to be.

Most of us here did absolutely nothing to EARN our citizenship.
 
I was wondering about this not too long ago. A buddy of mine in the army is a resident alien. He has lived in the US since he was 9 (he is now 30) and considers the US his home, but has a green card. Someday he said he would like to become a citizen, but he doesn't have the money to do it yet. He was talking to me about wanting to buy a rifle to teach his son how to shoot, but didn't know if he legally could.
 
I was wondering about this not too long ago. A buddy of mine in the army is a resident alien. He has lived in the US since he was 9 (he is now 30) and considers the US his home, but has a green card. Someday he said he would like to become a citizen, but he doesn't have the money to do it yet. He was talking to me about wanting to buy a rifle to teach his son how to shoot, but didn't know if he legally could.

In most states, the only additional requirement will be that he wil have to provide utility bills, lease or something like that to prove 90 days continuous residency in his state of residence. The Supreme Court ordered BATFE to remove that requirement about a year ago, but as of yet the regulation has not been changed.

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...iv8&view=text&node=27:3.0.1.2.3.8.1.4&idno=27

Title 27: Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
§ 478.124 Firearms transaction record.

(3) After the transferee has executed the Form 4473, the licensee:

(i) Shall verify the identity of the transferee by examining the identification document (as defined in §478.11) presented, and shall note on the Form 4473 the type of identification used;

(ii) Shall, in the case of a transferee who is an alien legally in the United States, cause the transferee to present documentation establishing that the transferee is a resident of the State (as defined in §478.11) in which the licensee's business premises is located, and shall note on the form the documentation used. Examples of acceptable documentation include utility bills or a lease agreement which show that the transferee has resided in the State continuously for at least 90 days prior to the transfer of the firearm;
 
I find that humorous, considering who wrote the Constitution.... a bunch of treasonous felons who had just completed a violent overthrow of their government who were "citizens" of America only because they claimed themselves to be.

hahahahaha

The old adage, " Winners are always heroes" for they get to write the history. In this case we can reflect back and admire those villainous scum ( sure the Britts called them much worse) who gave us one of the greatest nations of the 20th century.
 
Upon reading the Constitution, one will notice that some rights are granted to "persons," or "the people," while others go to "citizens."

Constitutional scholars agree that (a) the founders were extremely careful about choosing their words when drafting the document, and (b) a word or phrase used in one place in the document means the same thing anywhere else it is found in the document.

That latter, by the way, is what confounds those who claim that 2nd amendment rights are only for the National Guard, that organization being the successor to the colonial militia. If that were true, then the Preamble would actually have to have meant "We the Militia of the United States . . ." and then it would actually have guaranteed only "the right of the Militia peaceably to assemble," and so forth.

The founders were very specific about who gets what, and not all rights and privileges were limited to citizens.
 
As a Resident ailien myself I can tell you that it is a long row to hoe to get citizenship of the USA and so it should. Yes it is expensive in terms of actual cash and work lost to travel for interviews etc. A lot of people weigh up this cost against the actual benefit. For some it's as simple as do I spend the ten grand to be a citizen or do I give up some rights and get on with life. Many people just don't have the means to go all the way. But that does not mean that they are only here to make a buck and run. Most ailiens like myself know more about America, the Constitution and Laws of the USA then most American born citizens. You dont pick a country to raise your family on a whim. You researh it and make an informed decision. With my citizenship of birth and my wifes US citizenship we could live almost anywhere on the planet but chose to come home after twenty years overseas on two continents. Many have given their life's blood in defense of this nation a nation they chose not simply born in and continue to do so. I have four children who are citizens of the USA as is my wife. Does the fact I was not merely born here remove my right to defend my family. Hell no just like many of you born here you will only get my guns from my cold dead hands not before.
 
Thank you, and good job. A green card shows desire and effort taken towards being a US citizen. People with green cards can, and do, serve in the military too. Seems like many of the folks with green cards make better citizens than folks that were born here.
 
I'm split on illegal aliens having firearms,
Illegal aliens are specifically prohibited from possessing firearms (922g).

We're talking about foreign nationals (aliens) who have been Lawfully Admitted for Permenant Residence.
 
303tom: I am going to be the bad guy here. I believe that only citizens of the United States of America have the rights to our Constitutional Rights..........

You can honestly sit there and tell me I shouldn't have the right to the best possible means to defend myself?
Really, what is the difference between you and I? I pay the same taxes as you, I have a SS number, and pay towards it, I abide by the laws of the country, and if I screw up, I go to jail in America. The only difference is that I don't have something intangible: citizenship.

Plunge: I was wondering about this not too long ago. A buddy of mine in the army is a resident alien. He has lived in the US since he was 9 (he is now 30) and considers the US his home, but has a green card. Someday he said he would like to become a citizen, but he doesn't have the money to do it yet. He was talking to me about wanting to buy a rifle to teach his son how to shoot, but didn't know if he legally could.

I'm kind of in the same boat. I've been here since I was 3, and am 22 now. I haven't looked into it for some time, but I remember the process being somewhat expensive. My permanent resident alien card expires in 2014, so I'll probably do it then, or sooner if possible

Milamber: Most ailiens like myself know more about America, the Constitution and Laws of the USA then most American born citizens
Funny story; In my 12th grade government class, we took the actual test they give you when you're applying for citizenship. I scored a 98%, and not one other person in a class of 25-ish even passed it.
 
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I'm kind of in the same boat. I've been here since I was 3, and am 22 now. I haven't looked into it for some time, but I remember the process being somewhat expensive. My permanent resident alien card expires in 2014, so I'll probably do it then, or sooner if possible

IIRC the total cost is around $685 if you don't hire an immigration lawyer.

I did hire one because I'd been here from 1974 and done a lot of travelling, all of which has to be 'splained. Plus married, divorced etc. I felt the attorney fee was worth it to make sure every i dotted, every t crossed.
 
Yes ATF is doing away with the requirement of 90days' residence. Also a bunch of other stuff.
There is no reason to treat a permanent resident alien any differently than a citizen except in voting.
I dont see why requiring a card in MA is unconstitutional. Stupid? Yes.
 
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