Upgrading a DPMS AR-15

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Bear-girl

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Hi everyone -- I really enjoy reading the threads and learning from you all. Now, I have a question. I have a DPMS Panther 5.56 carbine which I bought a while back before I realized that most of the folks here don't have a very high opinion of this weapon. A significant factor in my selecting this model was its weight, as it seems to be noticeably lighter than most other AR-15-type weapons. It does fine for plinking, which is what I mostly do with it, but I have been wondering about if we ever get into a major civil unrest (SHTF?) situation, whether the reputed lack of reliability of this weapon would present a problem for defending my rural home. I have also gathered from reading here that the primary reliability concern is not with the lower receiver but with the upper receiver.

If I were to get and install a BCM BCG and maybe a charging handle, will my reliability be likely improved significantly to be comparable to a higher-grade AR-15-type weapon? If not, what else should I replace or at least get spares of? Would I need to replace the whole BCG or perhaps just certain parts of it?

Thank you for your suggestions.
 
If I were to get and install a BCM BCG and maybe a charging handle, will my reliability be likely improved significantly to be comparable to a higher-grade AR-15-type weapon? If not, what else should I replace or at least get spares of? Would I need to replace the whole BCG or perhaps just certain parts of it?
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No, and there are not necessarily parts you should stock up on. We don't really discuss "SHTF" here on The High Road, but I will answer this post as if I was stocking up for a lifetime of spare parts for an AR that I shoot a lot.

Your DPMS will be much more reliable than you are planning on, and much better than you have heard.

Reliability issues with the AR are almost always resolved by getting a good magazine (and using decent ammo). Rarely is the BCG the cause of problems, if anything it is from it being run too dry. ARs are most reliable when they are well oiled and have good magazines with them.

The charging handle is absolutely no factor in reliability. Think about it, it is only used to chamber the first round, or to clear a malfunction that is caused by another part of the weapon.

If I was going to get spare parts, it would be lots of good spare magazines. Magpul P-Mags, USGI mags with Magpul followers, and H&K steel mags (very expensive, I wouldn't get too many).
 
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Don't worry too much about what some individuals say about this brand or another. Go shoot your gun and have fun, if you run into a jamming issue then diagnose it and fix it. As allaroundhunter said good mags will solve most of your problems.
 
i only run pmags and usgi mags. a spare bolt never hurts, but the bcg isn't necessary so long as your gas key is staked properly.

good mags and plenty of practice will be your greatest assets.
 
Have you had significant issues running your DPMS as it is currently configured?

You didn't mention having any issues so I'll assume it's working fine. Why fix something that isn't broken.
 
I have not had any problems with it. My concern was that the many negative comments I have seen here on the forum about the reliability of this weapon would indicate that there might be a future failure at a time when it would be needed very much but when it would be hard to get parts, and whether there is something I should be doing now to minimize that risk.

I do have some Magpul P-Mag magazines, some Thermolds, and some metal ones (not sure what brand). I think I will concentrate on the P-Mags from here on out.

Thank you all for your comments. They are very encouraging.
 
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Bear-girl, all of the debating that you've seen really applies to buying a new rifle and getting the most bang for the buck. Since you already have a rifle, the trick (as with ANY rifle) is to make sure that it is reliable. If you've put a couple of thousand rounds through the rifle, then it is probably going to be reliable with your chosen ammunition.

No, and there are not necessarily parts you should stock up on.
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This is wrong. The AR is like any other piece of equipment. If you use it, parts will wear out and there are parts on an AR that are considered to be maintenance items. I'm not saying that you need to buy tons of spare parts, but there are things that you should have on hand.

1. Gas rings
2. Recoil/buffer spring
3. Extractor and springs/inserts
4. Ejector and springs
5. Cam pin
6. Firing pin
7. Firing pin retainer
8. Disconnector/spring, if you are running a stock trigger

If nothing else, just order yourself a spare bolt, which will cover the rings, extractor and spring, ejector, etc. A spare bolt and firing pin will cover probably 90% of what goes wrong with an AR. A spare buffer/recoil spring is also a good idea, since this is a common wear item.

As for lubrication, an AR that needs to be sopping wet to run right has something wrong with it. All that is needed is PROPER lubrication and there are many threads on the subject.
 
There's nothing wrong with tweaking an AR-15. Heck, most of us do that.

If your BCG is not full auto (sometimes called the M16 BCG), then go ahead and swap it out. You can defray the cost by selling your DPMS BCG.

The FA BCG has more weight, and is considered to be more durable. The extra weight also helps with recoil and cycling.

Go ahead and get the BCM BCG and don't look back.

Also, consider an H2 buffer for your carbine.
 
If nothing else, just order yourself a spare bolt, which will cover the rings, extractor and spring, ejector, etc. A spare bolt and firing pin will cover probably 90% of what goes wrong with an AR. A spare buffer/recoil spring is also a good idea, since this is a common wear item.
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Yup and I took this advice just today (not because I am worried I will need it anytime SOON, but ya never know) and ordered a spare MPI Bolt from PSA for $50. Non MPI are $40. Not bad for peace of mind.
 
I also have had my DPMS with carry handle "regular" AR15 for many years now and it has been flawless since I first bought it. I went shooting this morning with my my rifle and hitting 8"x8" metal hong at 200 yards with open sights.

Since I first bought it, many new "higher end" AR15's have come out and some how has made the DPMS look inferior. The past month I have been thinking on the same line as you wanting to upgrade it. But after today, I think I will keep it. Instead of spending a few hundred dollars in trading it for a "better brand" AR15 I am thinking of purchasing an Aimpoint instead.
 
If you want a more dependable rifle, you could get a new barrel and BCG... but I would just get a new complete upper, which could be mostly financed by selling your current one. If you like a nice light weight setup, you might look at the PSA mid-length pencil profile or lightweight profile upper. Then you would have an M-16 HPT MPI staked bolt and a chrome lined HPT MPI 1/7 twist barrel. Like you said, your DPMS lower is as good as any, and you wouldn't really benefit from swapping it out.

As for spare parts, a spare bolt, firing pin, and lower parts kit will pretty much have you covered.
 
I agree with madcratebuilder and TonyAngel. Most issues are with the bolt (extractor).

In my case the my other ARs are my spare parts. Spare parts always grow into complete ARs.

Unless you are a full time operator the DPMS will last a long time.
 
By the way, Palmetto State Armory has an AWESOME Labor Day deal still going on with uppers. I bought a complete upper for only $299. Great stuff at great prices!
 
There's nothing wrong with replacing your BCG with a BCM, and keeping your DPMS BCG as a spare. I'd consider it preventative maintenance, and regardless of what people here will tell you, it IS an upgrade. A spare LPK is never a bad idea either. Other than that, good mags and you should be set.
 
Excuse the interruption, but While I think I know what a BCG and a BCM are, I'm having trouble deciphering the TLAs (Three Letter Acronyms)
What do they stand for?
 
Have you had significant issues running your DPMS as it is currently configured?

You didn't mention having any issues so I'll assume it's working fine. Why fix something that isn't broken.
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How a gun performs during a day at the range shooting off a few rounds from a well cleaned and oiled gun is not much of an indicator of how it will perform in less ideal situations.

I would definitely swap the BCG, go to a H2 buffer and probably upgrade to a better charging handle. If not for durability reasons for the fact that there are much more ergonomic configurations available.
 
By the way, Palmetto State Armory has an AWESOME Labor Day deal still going on with uppers. I bought a complete upper for only $299. Great stuff at great prices!
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Where did you find a complete upper? All of the ones that I see do not include the BCG or the charging handle.

Excuse the interruption, but While I think I know what a BCG and a BCM are, I'm having trouble deciphering the TLAs (Three Letter Acronyms)
What do they stand for?
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BCG: Bolt Carrier Group

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BCM: Bravo Company Manufacturing

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTcqh-4ZQxQx7C8CItWOeAwFnFO_8WeE9Vfvaf9k_qP6dXY3_5G&t=1.jpg
 
You are right. I was wrong to call them "complete" uppers. They are without the charging handle and bolt carrier group. Still, GREAT deals.
 
You are right. I was wrong to call them "complete" uppers. They are without the charging handle and bolt carrier group. Still, GREAT deals.
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.....you had my hopes up..... :banghead:

But you are right, they are still great deals, and they are out of stock on many of their products as a result!
 
You mean a semi-auto BCG?
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Top tier manufacturers, who also sell to .gov and law enforcement, usually offer full auto bolt carrier groups. They sell them to anyone, because just having an M16 BCG doesn't make your gun full auto.

If I were to get and install a BCM BCG and maybe a charging handle, will my reliability be likely improved significantly to be comparable to a higher-grade AR-15-type weapon?
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No. Your best bet, if you want a 100% reliable AR, is to sell the DPMS you have or keep it as a spare and buy a better rifle. You'll spend more upgrading the rifle (and still only have half of a top shelf rifle) than you would if you just sold it outright and bought a new rifle from Bravo Company for $1000 or so.

Higher end AR15s undergo numerous additional quailty control measures to ensure that they will function reliably in conditions that choke lesser rifles.

Examples of extra measures taken on top tier rifles:

- chrome lined bore and chamber, to aid feeding and ejecting and reduce wear - the .223 casing walls are almost parallel, making it a picky feeder compared to cartridges with steeper angled walls like the 7.62x39mm, making the slickness of the chamber more of a concern
- High Pressure/Magnetic Particle Inspected bolt and barrels, they fire the rifle with an overcharged round, so that if it is going to blow up, it will do it at the factory
- staked gas key, so that the gas key won't work itself loose and seize the action up
- staked castle nut, so that your stock doesn't work itself loose
- barrel that is parkerized underneath the front sight block

Here's a BCM rifle, which can be had for right around $1000, that went 40,000 rounds with a single cleaning:

http://www.slip2000.com/blog/s-w-a-t-magazine-filthy-14/

Ignore those who says "parts is parts", it just isn't true. Something that says "mil-spec" may fit in any rifle, but it won't be held to the same standards of production materials and quality control.
 
Wow! What a nice set of comments and guidance. I knew I could count on you all to give me good information. In spite of the apparent differences in the answers, I can see where each one of you is coming from and understand your rationale. The suggestion to get a new weapon from BCM certainly ensures maximum reliability, whereas doing nothing if I have already put a lot of rounds through it and it works ok does have a legitimate basis too for the near future. Also, having some spare parts on hand, as many have recommended, makes a lot of sense, whether the weapon is a DPMS or a BCM, and thanks to those that have made specific recommendations on what parts would make the most sense. Also, I can understand that high-quality (and hence more expensive) parts will last longer than low-quality parts.

I figured the answer would come down to trading off budget limitations against how much of a reliability upgrade can be achieved with the different options, but your many comments now give me a better feel for how much actual improvement can be achieved with each option. I will study all of the suggestions some more, check out prices on a lot of things, do some more reading here on the forum, and then try to figure out the best solution for my situation.

Thank you all for taking the time and effort to share your thoughts and knowledge, as it is sincerely appreciated. You all have been a BIG help.
 
I too own a 16" DPMS,but mine is in 6.8spc. It has many rounds fired through it,both factory and handloads. It has been utterly reliable,and will shoot 1" groups if I do my part. The only modifications are a massaged single stage trigger, a rifle length free float tube,and a Nikon scope. Would I depend on it in a defense situation? Hell yes! This is the only DPMS AR 15 that I have ever owned,so I can't speak for the rest. I also own a Rock River and an early Eagle Arms in 5.56 that are also great shooters.
 
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