Does .25ACP and .32 ACP still cut it for self defense?

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I'm strongly attracted to the antique classic pocket autos. I think it's a combination of nostalgia and admiration for the aesthetics and the engineering. I also like my little collectibles to be in full service and on duty. That said, I prefer to carry .38 sp as EDC and .45 for special occasions. To each his own. To those who argue that smaller calibres have served well for decades and the human body has not evolved armor plating, I say yes, but in modern times, the bad guys are likely to be armed in 9mm, and the bad guys of yore were less likely to be hopped up on PCP. There are numerous perfectly concealable and reliable options today in .38 sp, .45ACP, 9mm, or similar. I can't bring myself to feel quite safe carrying an Ida Lupino special. I completely respect anyone whose training and experience lead them to a different opinion. Be safe.
 
14 inches penetration in gel by .25 acp standard velocity hardball will turn your lights off. I've seen it and it does.
Also saw shock from a single .25 though upper thigh which punched femoral artery by a lady angry with her boy friend..
What you chose for EDC is a personal but hits between breast pockets or above collar bone by .25 or .32 acp have a way of becoming real serious real fast.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-203529.html
 
"Does .25ACP and .32 ACP still cut it for self defense?"

Do they? Of course and especially depending upon circumstance. Are there better options? Of course but it may be a matter of what's on hand at the time.
 
Personally, I'm not a fan of .25, but I carry my Kel-Tec P32 everyday. I've got hundreds of rounds thru it, can put all my shots in about a 6 inch group at 7 yards. Right now it's loaded with Magtech Guardian hollowpoints but will probably go back to Fiocchi FMJ as they are DEFINATELY a hotter round with better penetration.

Regarding wound size: way I look at it, whether I'm shooting .32, .380, .38spl, or 9mm...they're all a 30mm hole (more or less). Bigger gun, I'm less likely to carry. At least with my P32, it's always there, it's always loaded, it always works.
 
I swear that if you go by internet forums, there are no suitable rounds for self defense. You've either got rounds that are too weak or rounds that are too powerful that will overpenetrate and hit your neighbor's kids.

Bad guys have evolved into super tough brutes with an armored epidermis in the last 30 years (or since gun forums became popular) and rendered rounds that used to be good enough for everybody completely invalid as defensive cartridges.
 
I have been shot at and when you are being "Shot At" are you going to stop and say "Oh thats only a .25 or .32 No problems". No, its "OMG he's got a gun and he is shooting at me".!!!!!!

Personaly I would not like to be shot with a BB Gun. So, whatever you pick the key point is "Practice with it" because if you carry a .45 auto and can't get the safty off, it is of no use no matter what cal it is.

Next, no matter what cal. you chose---Buy the Highest Quality pistol and ammo you can afford. Whats your LIFE worth?

Ronin
 
For self-defense those will probably suffice - if you place the bullets
where it hurts.

(For the average chairborne ranger zombie hoodlum shootout every1 seems to dream about ... it´s like bringing a glassjar full of angry bees.)
 
That "hopped up on pcp" is hyped much too much. 2 .25's in the hopped up's head and bet he dead. acp beats pcp when placed proper.
 
That "hopped up on pcp" is hyped much too much. 2 .25's in the hopped up's head and bet he dead. acp beats pcp when placed proper.
.25 ACP (and .22 LR fired from a .25 ACP sized pistol), with it's low mass and low velocity, will often glance off the cranium.

Then there's the tactical reality of trying to target the head with a small pistol.

"A gunfight is more like a fistfight than a tactical nuclear exchange." - Keith Jones
 
I usually stay out of these types of discussions but I will say that when I go for my walk or run in the afternoon's,at times it's at a large local park with lots of tree cover and I carry my Kel-Tec P32 loaded with fmj Fiocchi ammo.
One nice thing about my little P32 is the recoil is practically non existent and it is stone reliable and very accurate.
So standing in the way of eight 73 grain fmj rounds coming at you at close to a thousand feet per second would be most unsound.
It's so light and the needed emergency power is there and it just stows away so easily sometimes I am surprised I dont carry it even more.
A great pistol for athletic walks or to pocket while bank fishing.
 
I have never been a fan of the 25acp. I do own a Kel-Tec P32. I like the combination of a small light pistol that fits in my pocket and a caliber that has low recoil. Follow up shot are quick.

I also have a Kel-Tec P3AT that is my daily pocket carry gun. I like the P3AT but its recoil is pretty stout when I shoot it with some types of ammo. Not painful, just makes follow up shots are slower.

I like both of them. They have both been reliable and accurate enough for their purpose. I enjoy shooting the P32 more, but I carry the 380 because it is more potent. Between my two models, the P32 has the edge in accuracy, but not by much.

What I have ran into is people who prefer the 32acp over the 380acp. Several have stated that the 32acp complements the small pocket autos well. I cant really disagree with them because I feel the same way , but I will continue to carry my 380. I am sure either will do the job well, granted you put the rounds where the count.
 
14 inches penetration in gel by .25 acp standard velocity hardball will turn your lights off. I've seen it and it does.


I picked this little beauty up at the show this weekend just because I love these little guns. They can go where others can't. Nine FMJ's to the chest and I don't think anyone will know the difference.

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Some people on here are smoking something! 9mm=30mm Huh? 9mm handguns the size of an KT p-32 or P3AT Name me one. I bought the p-32 long before the p3at came out. My son bought the .380. It has too much recoil for me-as in it hurts(I shoot 44mags just fine). I love my P-32. Proper placement is what it is all about. The story about the cop in a shootout with a .25 who couldn't hit with it is a hoot. A larger gun is not the answer. Practice, practice and practice is the answer.
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I wouldn't personally carry a .25ACP unless I had no choice. .32ACP I wouldn't feel that bad with though. I regularly carry a .380ACP which is quite a bit bigger, but the .32 IMHO still has enough "oomph".
 
Well not really, the OP posted..
Sure it is.

The question being asked is whether these calibers "cut it" (a synonym for "adequate") for self-defense.

Whether they carry these calibers or not, immediate incapacitation is an important issue in self-defense.

So, if one asks if these calibers (.25 and .32) are up to the task, their ability to produce immediate incapacitation is very much an issue.
 
I bought a Keltec P3AT a couple of years ago. I kind of wish I had bought the P32 instead, just because it would be much more controllable and holds one extra round. .380 is a tough cartridge to shoot in such a light and tiny gun.
 
For me, .380 is my minimal SD cartridge. I'm sure a piece of 8.5 X 11 paper has killed someone at some point in time. I just establish my minimal standards and go with it.
 
Better hope he does not have any Amigos while you winchester your pistol in his chest.

Now that's the type of argument that's almost as silly as shot placement is the only thing that matters (of course it matters, what simpleton would not think it doesn't). I would suggest that most trained shooters, if multiple assailants were involved, would not empty their pistol into just one of them. No matter what the caliber.
 
I'm another Seecamp .32 owner, and everything that Shawn Dodson said about them pretty much applies to me, as well. I also keep mine loaded with winnie's q4255 flatpoint ball (rock solid reliability in most seecamps-most importantly mine), better penetration, and easier to shoot than the .380 in the same platform. Add a bandaid to my trigger finger, and I actually love shooting mine for practice.

It has its place.


As an aside, I eventually got rid of my SIG P238 micro .380 for a couple of reasons: my seecamp is slightly more reliable than the SIG (though it was pretty good too); the .32 strikes a better recoil/penetration/carry balance, IMO; and lastly, the SIG was enough larger that I figured I may as well just pocket a J-Frame. There is a reason that the .32 Seecamp is still made, and still sells (even with the .380 in the same size). Of course, the other side of that is the fact that the .25 Seecamp is *not* still in production...
 
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Their are probably thousands upon thousands of Raven .25's, Colts, Browning, PSP's and so on out there. Kel Tec P-32's, Beretta Tomcats, old Colts, Brownings, and a zillion European .32's. Are they still viable? Of course. Would you be better off with a larger caliber? Yes but not always.
I recently bought my girlfriend a P-32 Kel Tec brcause she neede something that was very concealable. After letting her try the P3AT, assorted .380's, .38 J frames, and so on she found the Kel Tec P-32 was the most she could handle in a small gun. The need to carry unobserved was a neccesity. .32 was the most she could fire rapidly and accurately from a small gun. So for her it was the best choice within the limitations of what she needed.
I loaded it with the hottest ball rounds I could find. Penetration is vital in any handgun.
The .32 usually doesn't expand and penetrate well. It's usually one or the other. You must reach vitals. The whole idea of "stopping power", "one shot stops", "knock down power" in a handgun is a myth. Read Jim Cirrilo's book on guns and gunfighting. He and his partner both emptied their revolvers on a large perps face. The infamous 158gr. round nose bullet was was the required load. Remember it was damned for overpenetration. After laying their awhile the guy asked for somthing to blose his nose with.
Out came a .38 Special slug. He walked to the ambulance under his own power. All handgun round have great successes and great failures. Once you begin to study the subject you realize lots of folks drop from .22's all the way up to .45. Lots don't. The only thing you can do is get a weapon that meets your needs (in this case it had to be small), that is reliable, is a caliber you can shoot well and fast. And practice lots. Those are about the only things you can do to effect the outcome of a gunfight.
No caliber guarantees you will survive. Nothing can guarantee that. You can only improve your chances with good training and mindset. Most of the factors of a violent confrontation are out of your control. Small .22, .25, .32, and .380's have been used for a long time to good effect. Hit vitals, hit fast, and keep hitting. If you do that and your gun is reliable and you reach vitals you stand a good chance of stopping your opponent. But there are no sure things including heavy calibers. Are they better??? Yes if circumstances allow and you are good with them.
But the whole thing about small bores only making someone mad is b.s.. A magazine full of .32's to the chest, neck, and head will probably do the job. We get too hung up on caliber. For every story of a small bore failing you can also find the bigger ones not working. If .32 is what you carry get good with it. It will probably see you through the night.
 
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