Idea regarding "Gun-Control".

When we take ourselves out of the conversation, Brady wins.

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If you have any concept at all of what we could "compromise" to keep them from taking away what we don't want to lose ... we're all ears.

We seem to be stuck in a blind rut running around in circles hollering "GIVE 'EM SOMETHIN' QUICK BOYS, SO THEY'LL LEAVE US ALONE!!!" Kind of absurd.

Kind of like being in a life boat surrounded by sharks yelling, "Throw out all the food and bait...that'll make them go away!"

Sheesh.

Well when the AWB comes back, you guys won't have anyone to thank but yourselves. I'm trying to talk about this in a way that keeps as much of our freedom as possible, but go ahead, keep on being zero-compromise.

When we take ourselves out of the conversation, Brady wins. Bigfatdave, you're the Brady campaigns ideal right-winger. You and people like you will cost us our freedom. So thanks, for nothing.

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with all due respect....ide rather someone take away my rights than to willingly give them up.

its much easier to take back what was wrongfully taken from you than it is to take back what you gave away.

To the member who postulated that the body count would have been the same with a revolver- how? The police would have arrived in the same amount of time, and potentially gotten to him. The difference is that he'd have had to reload every six rounds instead of every 30.

I can reload a revolver in about 2 seconds. So that's four reloads to equal one AR mag...8 extra seconds. Oh, yeah, you've got a GREAT point there.

To the member who postulated that the body count would have been the same with a revolver- how? The police would have arrived in the same amount of time, and potentially gotten to him. The difference is that he'd have had to reload every six rounds instead of every 30.

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ok, say you have a 6 shot revolver....you have to reload the revolver 5 times for every 1 30 round reload.

say on average it takes ~5 seconds to reload a revolver with a speed loader, that only amounts to an additional 25 seconds of reloading time........now i dont know how everything went down, but im going to guess an additional 25 seconds wouldnt have added up to anything significant.

if you want to make the argument that he reloaded without speedloaders...it takes ~30 seconds (being VERY generous with that time) at most to reload a 6 shot revolver....that still only adds up to 2.5 mins of reloading time......again, i can only hazard a guess that 2.5 mins wouldnt have made a whole hell of a lot of difference.

Personally, the only firearms regulation I could get behind, from a "fact-based" perspective, is a relatively high legal age of possession; many neurological disorders rear their heads towards the end of puberty, making 18 a poor age to define as "maturity". I would be all for assisted training and use prior to this time, but again, we would be relying on parents to follow the possesion/access laws in any case (as was the case with this latest tragedy).

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This may be a decent solution. 25 to buy a pistol or semi auto long-gun, unless you are a member of the military or a Law Enforcement officer.

To the member who postulated that the body count would have been the same with a revolver- how? The police would have arrived in the same amount of time, and potentially gotten to him. The difference is that he'd have had to reload every six rounds instead of every 30.

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Once again I say: You need ABSOLUTLY NO ID or proof of age to buy a blackpowder gun. You can get them sent to your house. Lets take away ALL the "assault weapons" (hypothetically), what is to stop one of thes nuts to strap 12 colt navys to their chest and go to town?

Blaisenguns....please dont give them any ideas, i like not having to jump through hoops to buy my black powders!!!

....you have to reload the revolver 5 times for every 1 30 round reload.

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No...four times. And it doesn't take 5 seconds.

Start loaded (6), reload (6), reload (6), reload (6), reload (6). There's 30. 5 reloads would put rounds 31-36 in the gun.

This may be a decent solution. 25 to buy a pistol or semi auto long-gun, unless you are a member of the military or a Law Enforcement officer.

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Please read Sam1911's post at the top of this page!!

If you feel this way about raising the age one can purchase a gun, I suppose you can go live with Bloomberg in his ivory castle in the city *free from crime* where large sodas are banned. Give my regards to Bloomberg and his buddy Schumer for me.....better yet please don't.

While I applaud "reasonableness" and people who honestly want to do something without taking any rights to own firearms away from law abiding citizens, I'm really against any more of these stupid "gun control laws".

I'm more of a mind that we simply hold those who commit crimes with firearms responsible for their actions and quit accepting excuses on their part or compromises with them.

We have quite enough laws on the books as it is...and quite a number of those laws are either meaningless to the problems at hand or outright useless.

If you want shootings like this to stop take it upon yourself. Train constantly and carry concealed. If you ban high cap mags you'll only make criminals out of honest folks. Someone who plans on murdering someone doesn't care about laws, morals ,or peoples lives. So why would they care about mag limits. the school had a no gun policy , the mall had a no guns sign. Now i'll ask you; Did that stop them?

Quit equating yourself to Adam Lanza.

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I have no idea how fast HE could load a revolver. But the point stands. If you want to propose solutions, they have to be solutions that have a PRAYER of working. So far, I'm not seeing many.

Heck, even the ones I've proposed -- which are far better than rocketmedics -- won't solve this problem, because it really cannot be ultimately "solved." But if we're going to do "something...."

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This may be a decent solution. 25 to buy a pistol or semi auto long-gun, unless you are a member of the military or a Law Enforcement officer.

Please read Sam1911's post at the top of this page!!

If you feel this way about raising the age one can purchase a gun, I suppose you can go live with Bloomberg in his ivory castle in the city *free from crime* where large sodas are banned. Give my regards to Bloomberg and his buddy Schumer for me.....better yet please don't.

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DONT compare me to Bloomberg mekeal. I take great offense to that. It was just about the only idea that was put foward that was potentually doable. I am trying to be constructive, rather then just bashing other members.

It didn't stop them because those do nothing to stop their access. That's the idea here.

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so you think that by legally restricting access to guns....that that will make them harder to get?

because that whole prohibition and war on drugs thing worked out great, eh?

It didn't stop them because those do nothing to stop their access. That's the idea here.

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How do you "stop their access" when they're willing to steal guns from others and kill their own mother and a bunch of kids. When all guns are safely locked away in gun clubs and armories...then the nuts will have to go to gun clubs and armories to steal their guns from there, I guess. Like has happened so many times before.

Or just get some gas cans.

You can't really legislate a solution to someone who's willing to commit any crime and DIE to achieve his twisted goal. That's just reality.

Sam1911 said:

I have no idea how fast HE could load a revolver. But the point stands. If you want to propose solutions, they have to be solutions that have a PRAYER of working. So far, I'm not seeing many.

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Right.

Besides, I bet the cowardly killer could have reloaded a revolver a heck of a lot faster than any of the people at that school could have managed to get a gun in their hands. When a killer walks into a room of unarmed people and starts slaughtering them wholesale, speed of reloads and magazine capacity have no real bearing on the outcome. The fact remains that he was the only one in that school with a gun, and had at least 5 minutes to kill before any type of police confrontation was likely to occur. In five minutes even the most incompetent shooter could manage to reload a revolver 4 times.

Plus, how hard would it be to bring 3 or 4 revolvers with you? Oh, and what about the Jonesboro, Arkansas style of school shooting? Wasn't that around 11 people shot (5 killed) by an 11-year-old with a bolt action deer rifle?

More gun laws aren't the answer. It's another case of treating the symptom instead of the disease. Guns are loud, scary looking, and obvious. But, they're merely a symptom. The disease was within the killer.

I'm sure some gun owners will happily "go to the table" with their tails between their legs, and beg to keep some of their rights. I'm sure some gun owners will be happy to concede the rights to guns that they don't own, or that don't interest them; I've already heard some hunters talking about how they'd be fine with an AWB, since they don't own "assault weapons". Me, personally, I'm not willing to budge on this one. We're not the problem, and our guns aren't the problem. I'm tired of being labeled as a "crazy redneck" by the gun-grabbers on the other side of this table, and I'm not going to lower my head in shame. I'm tired of gun-grabbing journalists and politicians suggesting that I'm only fighting for my rights because I 'need a gun to feel manly'. I've done nothing wrong with my guns, and I've even saved some innocent lives with mine. I owe the Brady Campaign nothing. I owe the VPC people nothing. I'll 'go to the table' to suggest solutions, but gun bans are not a solution I'm suggesting.

You can't really legislate a solution to someone who's willing to commit any crime and DIE to achieve his twisted goal. That's just reality.

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It really is that simple. In order to live in a free society, you have to be willing to accept the consequences of evil, and mental illness. If you would feel safer living in a country with more controls, then you have pretty much the rest of the world to choose from.

Personally I think that America can withstand a small population shift.

The point does not stand. It takes practice and discipline to reload like that. Something Lanza didn't have. Lanza and his kind are not like us. Every-time you say crap like that, you make him like us in anyone's eyes.

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How do you know what he did or didn't know how to do? And really, it doesn't take Jerry Miculek to reload a revolver fairly quickly. So what if it took him TWICE as long? Four seconds? FIVE? So what? The idea that he'd be hampered in his efforts significantly because he had a revolver instead of an AR-15 is WRONG.

That's what I meant that the point still stands. And it DOES.

Coloradokevin nailed this:

The fact remains that he was the only one in that school with a gun,

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THAT was the only fault we have any real hope of correcting moving forward.

I don't like the ideas in the OP at all.

Just a thought, I think the focus of the ban proposals to come may well be semi-auto firearms and detachable magazines greater than 10 rds. All of them, pistol, rifle, shotgun, whatever. They will go after these 2 items if they are really serious. If they just want to score political points they'll settle for for meaningless window dressing like the old AWB.

Not sure if they'll try to make it retroactive, although that could be easily done.

These 2 items are the common denominator in the mass killings I know of - it seems, for all the talk of revolvers, shotguns, knives, ball bats, cars, bombs, & blah blah blah, that these losers nearly always use military-police-clone type semi-auto rifles and pistols, and hi-cap mags. One obvious reason, of course, is the same reason the police and military uses them - they are the most effective way commonly available to civilians to shoot the highest number of aimed shots quickly.

Also true that though there are any number of non-military looking guns out there that could easily be nearly as deadly, the cretins never use them any more. It's always Glocks and ARs or similar. Curious.