Robert J. Sawyer

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jamesbeat

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I am reading a book by one of my favorite authors, Robert J. Sawyer.
He writes some excellent sci fi, but I have noticed a little anti gun rhetoric here and there in his writing.

In the book I'm reading, two characters are discussing suicide.
The short version is that strict gun laws prevent deaths by suicide because- get this- suicidal people who don't have access to a gun are forced to use other, less effective means!

The idea is that if you slit your wrists or eat a bottle of aspirin, you are more likely to survive, and people who survive a suicide attempt are often grateful to the people who saved them.
Had they used a gun, they would have simply died, so gun laws save lives!

I was so shocked at this bizarre feat of mental gymnastics that my respect for this author plummeted. I guess I'll still read his books, but I don't admire him as much as I did.
First Stephen King, now Robert J. Sawyer :(

My only consolation is that Mr. Sawyer has stated before that he doesn't necessarily believe the things that his characters believe, his example was a religious character of his.
Perhaps he read that this was someone's opinion, and used it for the character without actually sharing the opinion himself. I hope so, because it's one of the most dumb arguments about gun control I have ever read.

Even if this whole 'saving suicide victims' thing is in fact true, (which is feasible) and that a few people would survive an attempt to kill themselves if we restricted firearms ownership, is that a valid reason to infringe my rights?
 
I hate that guy.
I find nearly everything Sawyer produces to be offensive for completely non-gunny reasons.

Especially the Hominid trilogy, in which a character makes the observation that "handguns are illegal in Canada"

*sigh*

300px-Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg

Edit: It is in "Humans"
“Handguns are banned in Canada,” Mary said. “That’s not to say there aren’t some around, but…” She shrugged. “It’s a different place than where we were. The last assassination in Canada was in 1970, and that had to do with Quebec separation. I honestly don’t think you have any more to worry about than does any other celebrity in Canada.
 
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I believe there's another part in that trilogy, though I can't remember which one, that mentions something similar.
It's probably in 'Humans' actually, because it's when the bad guy is in the tunnels (particle collider?)
It is mentioned that he probably got his pistol (a Glock I think) in America, because they're easier to get over here than in Canada, which is where the event took place.

It smacked to me of anti gun preaching, because it wasn't really pertinent to the story.
 
I had to look up Robert Sawyer. Sci-fi is not my preferred genre. I guess sci-fi is one means of getting unusual ideas out there, but watching the original Roddenberry STAR TREK, ie Capt. Kirk, Mr.Spock, Doc McCoy is about as far as I ever got into sci-fi.
Still, if your`e an author, I guess having characters say things you dont agree with goes with the territory.
 
I hope that's what it is.

Anyway, what about the suicide thing?
Should that even be a factor in gun laws?

I have read quite a few anti arguments concerning suicide, whether it's gun laws preventing suicide, or including suicides in 'gun crime' statistics to pad them out.

Personally, I think that gun control laws designed to thwart suicides, or at least to make the person choose a 'less lethal' option is absurd.
 
Anytime someone brings up Americans' right to keep and bear arms in relation to suicides, reply with Japan, China and South Korea. Nearly zero guns in civilian hands and about double the rate of suicide. Gun ownership is not relevant to suicide rates.
 
I've one of his books, Calculating God, and it seemed to me to have a real heavy-handed liberal lean to it, very Anti-Christian too. I fought through it, not a bad book. But, I get tired when I think my values are being attacked while reading a book for pleasure.

If you like science fiction, you're lucky, because I find a lot of SF authors are very libertarian in nature and writing style. Heinlein and Poul Anderson, and Larry Niven come to mind.

Not that you have to wall yourself off and only read things that you agree with. I don't generally mind ideas or mores that I don't agree with in books. Just don't preach them over and over when it doesn't have anything to do with the story.
 
I put up with the liberal stuff in Sawyer's books because he has good sci fi ideas. Calculating God is a good book. If you are religious and find that book galling as a result, try some of his others. There's plenty of positive arguments for religion as well as against in his work, which is why he was explaining that his views don't necessarily match those of his characters.
I believe he's an atheist, but you'd never know it if you read Illegal Alien for example.
That deals with several different species of alien believing in god.

The suicide argument about gun control gets on my nerves. If someone chooses to commit suicide, that's their problem.
What next?
Ban aspirin?
 
I dig Sawyer. In fact he is one of the few sci-fi authors that I like.

The problem with most legit "gun authors" is that they don't know how to tell an interesting story. And when I read books that means more to me than a right wing political bent. Call me nuts...

-Dan
 
I'll check them out. I read a lot, and 90% of it is sci fi, so I'm always on the lookout for new authors.

Heinlein is of course one of the great masters of the genre, and he was almost certainly a gun nut. It was watching a video of the very brass cannon that used to belong to him, the one that inspired The Moon is a Harsh Mistress that turned me on to cannon.
I now have my own little 1" bore cannon, steel though, not brass, that I hope to have finished in time for July 4th.

I'm not too bothered about a particular author's gun stance though, which is why I will still read Robert J. Sawyer's books, but that whole suicide thing rubbed me up the wrong way.

I actually intended for this thread to be about whether suicide should be a factor in gun legislation, but I think I chose a poor title to convey that :D
 
Anyway, what about the suicide thing?
Should that even be a factor in gun laws?

He may have a weak point on guns being a more effective means of killing ones self than, say, pill overdose (if I recall correctly the stats are legit that while women are more likely to try and commit suicide, men are more likely to succeed when they try owing to the fact that men tend to use guns).

But -- it has also been my experience that suicidal people who really want to be dead will find a way to make themselves so. I've had three pretty good friends who indisputably killed themselves (notes left, all that) along the way in life. All three were tragedies. The two who killed themselves with handguns, however, were a damn sight more responsible than the third who did so with alcohol, drugs, and a car . . . and also the family of four in the other car he collided with as well.
 
I'll check them out. I read a lot, and 90% of it is sci fi, so I'm always on the lookout for new authors.

The Gunniest of sci-fi authors was probably the late H. Beam Piper.

In one of his Paratime novels the protaganist (a time/space/parallel world Jumping policemen) is nearly "made" because someone notices that his mauser rifle is ever so subtly wrong.*

Uller Uprising is a particularly impressive piece.

http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/authors/p#a8301
 
He may have a weak point on guns being a more effective means of killing ones self than, say, pill overdose (if I recall correctly the stats are legit that while women are more likely to try and commit suicide, men are more likely to succeed when they try owing to the fact that men tend to use guns).

But -- it has also been my experience that suicidal people who really want to be dead will find a way to make themselves so. I've had three pretty good friends who indisputably killed themselves (notes left, all that) along the way in life. All three were tragedies. The two who killed themselves with handguns, however, were a damn sight more responsible than the third who did so with alcohol, drugs, and a car . . . and also the family of four in the other car he collided with as well.
I also had a friend who comitted suicide, which is why it struck such a chord with me I guess.

It's just such a bizarre argument. Assume that the person really does want to die and attempts suicide, banning guns in order to limit their options to means that are slightly less likely to succeed is a pretty desperate argument.
The fact that a lot of them are glad they didn't die is neither here nor there.
 
I've never read a Sawyer book. Had breakfast with him once, nice enough guy in person. Don't know a thing about his politics. Didn't ask.

An author isn't their characters. Well written characters are going to have their own opinions on every subject. It is only galling when the author has obvious, blatant, stupid issues and they let their own baggage shine through a character in a particular way. (for example, any "heroic" character Stephen King has ever tried to write)

The problem with most legit "gun authors" is that they don't know how to tell an interesting story. And when I read books that means more to me than a right wing political bent. Call me nuts...
I'm just chiming in for this gem... I'm not a "gun author". Mike's not a "gun author". We're just authors. I started out writing for an audience of guns guys, but believe me, you'd starve to death trying to live off of just that market. :)

I'm published in 7 languages now, have won some fancy awards, been nominated for more fancy awards, and sold a ton of books, gotten on some bestseller lists, that sort of thing. No offense dude, but I'm not some little boutique vanity press guy writing revenge porn with a side of gun catalog. :D

I happen to be an out of the closet conservative, political activist, and huge gun nut. That said, there are actually a whole lot of conservaitve gun loving authors in sci-fi and fantasy, but most of them actually keep their mouths shut because the publishing industry is overwhelming dominated by liberals, and they are scared to damage their careers. If you are left leaning though, you totally don't have to worry about that and can be as political as you want without any repurcussions.

Me? I owned a machine gun store when I got my first publishing contract. Me hiding my political convictions was never a possibility.
 
That's the hope I'm clinging to, maybe Sawyer read this argument and decided to have his character use it, not necessarily reflecting what he thinks himself.
If he's actually an atheist, he is certainly not afraid to give good arguments against atheism.
Hopefully the same applies to this gun/suicide thing, and he doesn't buy into the crap that he had his character spout.
He seems to possess a great deal of intelligence, and even an anti should be able to see that this is a moronic argument.

As I said, it won't put me off reading his books, because he has a real talent for picking up cutting-edge science and making a gripping story out of it.
 
CORREIA - "... but most of them [conservative authors] actually keep their mouths shut because the publishing industry is overwhelming dominated by liberals, ..."

Same thing in show business.

L.W.
 
> someone notices that his mauser rifle is ever so subtly wrong.

That wasn't a Mauser, if we're thinking of the same story. It was a 1935 Sharps in .235 Ultraspeed-Express.

If I ever do a 6mm wildcat, I might use that name...
 
That wasn't a Mauser, if we're thinking of the same story. It was a 1935 Sharps in .235 Ultraspeed-Express.

I took it to be a Mauser action, or something close enough to pass. :cool:

The man with the matinee-idol's face nodded. "It could be a lynx. I understand they're not unknown, in this section."

"We paid bounties on two in this county, in the last year," Parker said. "Odd rifle you have, there; mind if I look at it?"

"Not at all." The man who had been introduced as Richard Lee unslung and handed it over. "The chamber's loaded," he cautioned.

"I never saw one like this," Parker said. "Foreign?"

"I think so. I don't know anything about it; it belongs to a friend of mine, who loaned it to me. I think the action's German, or Czech; the rest of it's a custom job, by some West Coast gunmaker. It's chambered for some ultra-velocity wildcat load."

The rifle passed from hand to hand; the three men examined it in turn, commenting admiringly.

Later on:

And did you find out about my rifle?"

"Oh, yes. It's reproduction of something that's called a Sharp's Model '37 .235 Ultraspeed-Express. Made on an adjoining paratime belt by a company that went out of business sixty-seven years ago, elapsed time, on your line of operation. What made the difference was the Second War Between The States. I don't know what that was, either—I'm not too well up on Fourth Level history—but whatever, your line of operation didn't have it. Probably just as well for them, though they very likely had something else, as bad or worse.
 
Correia said:
I'm published in 7 languages now, have won some fancy awards, been nominated for more fancy awards, and sold a ton of books, gotten on some bestseller lists, that sort of thing. No offense dude, but I'm not some little boutique vanity press guy writing revenge porn with a side of gun catalog.
Geez, Larry. He posts here sometimes too, ya know!

That said, the book could have used more editing...
 
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