Why didn't the APS priming system catch on?

It's a proprietary system that's patented.

The only progressive press that I have that I prime on the press is my RCBS Pro2000 with the APS priming system.

I can see the strip indexing and I can be sure there is a primer in place to be seated.

The proprietary thing is probably the main reason but I am sure the other manufacturers do not want an RCBS system on their presses.

My other three progressives, a Hornady and two Dillons, I have removed the priming systems from the press as they were not reliable enough for me. Since I clean my cases between resizing and reloading, I can hand prime 100 cases as fast as filling a primer tube and I know all the primers are seated properly. (FYI, i have yet to resize a case on the Pro2000).

I wouldn't have anything else. I change primer size in 10 seconds casually on my Pro 2000. No tubes or trays to load...just add preloaded strips and crank ammo. The press has a primer depth adjustment that works well if you uniform primer pockets.

Otto said:

It's a proprietary system that's patented.

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This is true....When the patent wears out you might see the other companies copy it. Primer strips only come with CCI, but you can use the loader to load other brands of primers. Dillon, Lee, and Hornady users who are sick of primer problems can either buy an APS hand primer, or an APS bench primer. Those that do love them.

The APS hand primer is a wonder. I love mine. I can pull down a box of a 1000 stripped primers of small rifle and load 5 or a 1000. Partially empty strips work as well as a full strip of 25....and the next strip hooks to the end of the last one.....and it can be the same as what you started or something else...large pistol, large rifle.....whatever.

6mmBR.com guys love it too.



There's two kinds of reloaders who don't like them.....those who never tried them, and those who tried them but didn't follow directions to use the system properly.

You can jam a strip if you don't make sure all the primers are flush in the strip....and you can break a couple of 10 cent parts (RCBS replaces free) if you ignore instructions not to pull the strips out backwards. Otherwise its trouble free unless you spill powder in it. If you do...blow it out and continue.

Its the safest and fastest priming system out there, especially if you buy preloaded primers....and they're not that much more money.

I use the RCBS APS system to prime all my pistol brass. I use the press mounted APS that goes on the Rockchucker and really like it. The APS primer strip loader is easy to use, and I load the strips with my Federal primers and when I'm ready to load on the Hornady LNL, I don't install the sizing die, and I'm working with prepped, primed cases.

I love the APS system for it's consistency and speed. I pick up two cases at a time and prime them both before dropping them in the bin and picking up two more cases.

The only other priming system I've found that is as consistent is the Ram Prime, which is also a press top system. It's slower, since you have to handle the primer and the case, but it still seats all the primers to the depth I've set, which is -.004" below flush.

I stopped using hand priming systems years ago, as they were too hard on my hands. As the younger reloaders get older, they'll find out what I mean........

Hope this helps.

Fred

I like the idea of the bench-mounted system, but the $95 cost (from Midway) has me balking a bit. That's before the extra strips and the strip loader. YIKES!

Expense, and the fact that if you take reasonable precautions you don't even need it on a fast progressive press.

It's like auto climate control in your car.
Nice to have, but in the end you can adjust your temperature with the little knob just as easily.

R. Lee in his book on modern reloading discussed the RCBS auto strip priming system--deleted--. In the same book he discussed Federal primers, R. Lee did not test Federal primers because Federal did not donate primers to be tested.

In his book, R. Lee thought RCBS should share the patent with other reloading equipment manufactures, in the name of safety.

F. Guffey

You should be concerned about things worth real stress. A reloader has to be resourceful and flexible. Installing the small primer parts on the Hornady LnL AP is very straightforward. I would recommend buying a 1/4 drive 7/16 socket that will hold the primer plug and be small enough to fit in the space. It helps greatly in getting the plug started on the threads.

To really answer your question with an opinion, I don't think RCBS ever achieved or ever will achieve sufficient market penetration to support special parts from a third party.

If the Primer companies sold their primers in strips to start with it may have caught on. However, I don't want to seat them twice once in the strip and once in the cartridge.

Lee S. Forsberg said:

If the Primer companies sold their primers in strips to start with it may have caught on. However, I don't want to seat them twice once in the strip and once in the cartridge.

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That's just it....CCI's certainly caught on with reloaders, and they do sell their primers in strips.

I used my strip loader to load all my old primers I had stashed before I bought the APS tools. Since then I buy them ready to load. You don't have to peck, you don't have to dump & shake, and you don't have to worry about blowing something up.

Besides, what's the difference spending a few minutes loading a hundred in a tube or into 4 strips with four strokes of the strip loader. Takes about the same time as pecking a hundred, so unless you bought an auto tube loader that works....it's 6 or half a dozen, except when you count safety......then there is no comparison.

Even if you were to figure out away to jam a primer and detonate it trying to prime, one primer would go off, not a whole tube or tray.

Havok7416 said:

I like the idea of the bench-mounted system, but the $95 cost (from Midway) has me balking a bit. That's before the extra strips and the strip loader. YIKES!

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They are a little pricey compared to some other tools. Many guys don't balk at paying $100 for a Dillon or RCBS bench swager, that you only use for military brass, but yet balk at a great bench tool like this that you would use for every case you load. If I loaded all my ammo on a single stage or a turret, I would run not walk to buy a bench-mounted APS primer tool....

To me, it's clumsy, costly and infexibly limited to large packages of a single primer brand. Other than that it's a fabulous priming system. Seems a lot of people agree with me. ??

I can refill my old Lyman tube feeders faster than strips. I have two 23 year old Lee AutoPrimes, one each for large and small. I don't see how it can be easier to load anything than those trays. And I have never broken a thumb handle or had any problems with them at all - might help that I don't act like Tim Taylor II when something isn't going right.

Different strokes...

GW Staar said:

Takes about the same time as pecking a hundred, so unless you bought an auto tube loader that works....it's 6 or half a dozen, except when you count safety......then there is no comparison.

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I have started loading 50 primers, two strips worth, at a time in my APS strip loader. While i have not put a stop watch to it, it seems quicker per 100 primers than dropping an entire 100 primer package in the strip loader.

When putting 100 primers in the strip loader, I found the loading the first two strips were slowed dealing with all the extra primers in the tray.

While the time savings may only be nano seconds, the efficiency of loading 50 primers at a time in strips is better, at least for me.

ranger335v said:

I can refill my old Lyman tube feeders faster than strips. I have two 23 year old Lee AutoPrimes, one each for large and small. I don't see how it can be easier to load anything than those trays. And I have never broken a thumb handle or had any problems with them at all - might help that I don't act like Tim Taylor II when something isn't going right.

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Thumb handles on the 1980 vintage Auto Primes would fail, I would replace a handle or a connecting link about once a year. I also have two, one for large and the other for small primers. Besides eliminating the change over, I always had spare parts on hand.

About 1990, the vintage of your Auto Primes, Lee improved the design of the handle and link and failures disappeared.

I agree, loading stripes to use a hand primer is not very efficient. Besides my Pro2000, I also have the RCBS Universal APS hand primer. With pre-loaded strips, it is more efficient with a hand primer than filling the tray.

CCI primers work fine for me, I just have to get out of the mode of buying primers when I see them. I need to buy larger quantities of APS stripped primers to get me over the shortage periods.

But, yes, different strokes for different folks.

cfullgraf said:

I agree, loading stripes to use a hand primer is not very efficient. Besides my Pro2000, I also have the RCBS Universal APS hand primer. With pre-loaded strips, it is more efficient with a hand primer than filling the tray.

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True enough, but I wouldn't load strips during a reloading session. More like at the kitchen bar, while I watch NCIS on TV. You can load a 1000 primers in about 15 minutes. A whole stash in a couple of evenings.

And the best part? You can safely store them.....thousands of them....ready to load. You gonna load and store tubes????? Bottom line is...once you have a large stash of primers preloaded even loading a try seems slow.......and nothing is safer.

Clumsy? I find it just the opposite. I used autoprimes for 20 years....you have to shake 'em to make sure you have a primer to load. I like the sure thing on my APS hand primer. No shell holder required either....clumsy?

It's typical RCBS marketing; you need to buy additional, not included, at separate cost, items to make it work.

$95 for a priming tool, $32 for the loader, $48 for the strips for most primer sizes. Plus RCBS has been trying for over 30 years to make a decent progressive press...So if you want to run a progressive, it won't be a green one. And these strips won't work in any other color.

FGuffey, where did you see those quotes about Lee? I have both of his reloading books and he never mentioned APS or that he doesn't like Federal because he didn't get a free box...Federal is mentioned because they're a hazard. Too touchy and easily detonated. That's why Federal has the cafeteria sized trays to hold their primers. Had to get them far enough apart to get past the tests the shippers do on all hazardous items.

Only reason to buy Federal is a Weatherby or similar size shoulder buster; you need the Federal hand grenade effect to get the powder burning.

Quote"
"There's two kinds of reloaders who don't like them.....those who never tried them, and those who tried them but didn't follow directions to use the system properly."

Pretty much true about any piece of reloading equipment I have ever used!

Ken70, I've had an RCBS progressive Piggyback II since 1992, and I've reloaded .32 Auto, 380, 9mm, 38/357, .40S&W, .45, .44/.44Mag without a problem, thru all those years, so tell me again that RCBS is still trying to make a progressive. Needless to say after as many rounds that I loaded on it some parts started wearing out, so all I did was call RCBS and they sent me a new part w/I a week.

Getting back on the subject, I tried the strip loader, and found it to be ok, however I still use the tube feed process, and gave the strip feed and all the accessories to my son. "Hard to teach an old dog new tricks" so they say.

Heck I bought some APS LR primers just because they were available.

I like the nice small compact package of 5,000 compare to a large case of say Winchester. Takes up much less storage space.

I do not plan on buying the hand tool, just pop them out with a small dowel rod into my tray.

Ken70,

You know not of what you speak. (That's old English, so you might have to look it up)

Fred

Ken70 said:

It's typical RCBS marketing; you need to buy additional, not included, at separate cost, items to make it work.

$95 for a priming tool, $32 for the loader, $48 for the strips for most primer sizes. Plus RCBS has been trying for over 30 years to make a decent progressive press...So if you want to run a progressive, it won't be a green one. And these strips won't work in any other color.

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Strips are 75 cents apiece if you buy 8 at a time at Midway. Free if you make your own empties from buying, loading, and shooting new preloaded CCI strips. What can you do with the plastic primer carriers in regular primer boxes.....besides throw them away or make wall art.

I do like my much cheaper APS hand primer, and really, I'm waiting for RCBS to update their bench primer to use the universal shell holder, before I spend another $100.

Speaking of including things in a product....the Pro 2000 comes with a strip loader, 8 strips of each color, and both sized cylinders (with micrometer stems) for their Uniflow powder measure........so I don't need another strip loader, or another powder measure.

I do run a progressive (in two rifle calibers, and 4 pistol calibers and counting) .....it is green.....and only one of the best reasons I chose it was that "these strips won't work in any other color". Other reasons? Simplicity, dependability, strength, and it doesn't require constant tuning and syncing like most others.

Rule3 said:

Heck I bought some APS LR primers just because they were available.
I like the nice small compact package of 5,000 compare to a large case of say Winchester. Takes up much less storage space.

I do not plan on buying the hand tool, just pop them out with a small dowel rod into my tray.

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Still another plus. Small Package size and still safe to store.

LOL! The dowel method, though, isn't exactly the fastest way to supply primers to a primer tool, but in these times of necessity, amid the warped supply and demand situation, it sometimes calls for desperate action! But beware....handling those strips may become addictive.

I personally don't care for strips. I have no problems using primer tubes that I can load faster than the strips. Preloaded strips increase the cost of primers.

GW Staar said:

Still another plus. Small Package size and still safe to store.

LOL! The dowel method, though, isn't exactly the fastest way to supply primers to a primer tool, but in these times of necessity, amid the warped supply and demand situation, it sometimes calls for desperate action! But beware....handling those strips may become addictive.

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Well I was gonna say i use my teeth, like those little round candy drops you got as a kid that were on the long strip of white wax paper stuff.

I just hold the strip over the round primer holder shaker thing and pop them out,
Takes a minute maybe. I am saving the strips as a retirement fund to sell on Flea Bay.

Wow, all 3 RCBS progressive press owners in the same thread....be honest, green progressives are just not popular. Never have been. They've tried, but for some reason they only appeal to a very tiny minority. Like you guys.

Interestingly, during a conversation with a gentleman at RCBS I was told (with considerable indignation, I might add), that CCI primers in APS strips are not supposed to cost any more than CCI primers loose. He was quite upset when I told him they generally sell for a buck or so more per thousand.