Unwise Information?

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CB900F

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Fella's;

I see a number of threads on the site that constantly ask what was the last gun you bought? What did you find? Whatcha got? And I understand the desire of many members to simply talk about & exchange information about their guns. But, in today's information enviroment, I avoid these threads. There's verifiable information that our government is aquiring mind-boggling quantities of data storage space, and the whole NSA domestic information gathering isn't somebody's tin-foil cap idea either.

Quite frankly, if you've got a pre-GCA68 firearm that there's probably, or certainly, no Federal record of, there's no need to tell the world about it these days. If you just purchased a modern firearm face-to-face, you've broken the paper trail, provided you didn't sign anything with the seller. Why create the possibility that the record can be picked up through your own actions on the internet?

If you think that the whole idea of firearms registration/confiscation is hokum and I'm straining at gnats, go ahead. But do realize that in the past, our Federal government has specifically stated that no records shall be made of firearms transactions. That was seriously eroded by the Gun Control Act of 1968 of course. For many of our members, GCA-68 is the norm, never having experienced firearms ownership without it. And therefore they don't see the form 4473 as a big deal. However, it is a very big deal in that it directly compromises the intent of the founders of this nation concerning citizen firearms ownership. Don't think so? Study the Federalist Papers, an interesting set of documents that gets very short shrift in our public schools these days.

So what's your opinion? Tell all, or say nothing?

900F
 
I'm with you. No sense bragging, it will reap no rewards. The worst one is "where do you live, and why? Unbelievable.
 
We kick this question around sometimes and the responses tend to be mixed.

On the one hand folks don't want to admit to anything and fear the government.

On the other hand, folks who say, "You're participating here on a firearms-enthusiast site and your credit card receipts are full of gun, parts, ammo, gunpowder, and other related purchases, and you're an NRA member, and you subscribe to three gun magazines, and belong to a gun club, and, and and... who are you kidding?"

Those folks tend to say that gun ownership is not a crime -- be loud, be proud -- and that the only way to keep the confiscators at bay is to fight hard and loudly now. Once there's some lawful way to confiscate guns, and find them by searching out what someone talked about on an internet forum, we're either completely lost anyway, or there's a shooting war going on and it no longer matters.
 
Yeah, they already know who owns firearms and who doesn't. It is easy to find out. So what is the harm in talking about a specific gun on a website? Are they going to come for just that one? No. They are going to look for all you have.

(not that I believe confiscation would ever happen)
 
So the compromise is to only talk about the ones you have a 4473 on, and don't mention the ones you buried under your Grandma's cellar. Right?
 
I tend to side with Sam's option B. I think it's completely naive to believe the various gub'mint agencies don't already know what you have and when you bought it (the legal stuff, anyway; if you're online talking about illegal stuff, then you deserve whatever you get).
 
If the government you live under ever gets the right to come to your home and confiscate your guns, and you fit the right profile you're either going to give up some guns or go to jail. This is what I tell my liberal friends, "You live in the country, you garden, you have known conservative associates. You need to buy a gun so you can have something to give up. If you don't have anything to give up, what are you going to do--plead 4th and 5th amendment rights? As they drag you away you can scream that you donate to PEETA, are a card carrying member of the ACLU, and voted for Obama. It won't help."
 
If the government uses the information it garners from THR as fact, it has some soul searching to do.

Not saying we're a bunch of blow-hards... but this place is full of non-verifiable information.
 
It would be tough for anyone to prove that because you claim to own something on an internet forum, you actually own it. I could tell you guys that I just got back from my local range and I took my M1A1 Abrams Tank out for some practice with the main gun. Other than a few of my neighbors that are members here (and the absolute absurdity of such a claim), it would pretty tough to prove/disprove it.

Plus, I remember around this time last year a lot of us lost our guns during the great THR boating accident of 2012. :evil:
 
If you're scared to mention certain things because you fear the government, you're a slave already.

We're already slaves! Some people just realize it more than others. Ever heard of the IRS, NSA, Obamacare, the president now using dictatorial powers, qualified immunity for the police when they commit crimes, etc.?

The reason all these government agencies get away with what they are doing is because we don't live in a constitutional republic anymore, even though we crow about the constitution and our rights all the time, they continue to violate our rights and get away with it. Why? Because the constitution isn't the basis of law anymore. Otherwise, it would still have an effect.

If a SWAT team ever shows up at your house because they "Received a call about you doing this or that", and you inform them that you have the "right" to refuse an unwarranted search of your home, or that you have the right to due process, let's see if they back down because of it. They wouldn't because they know they have so-called rights of their own. They can break into your home with guns blazing and kill you and then claim Qualified Immunity, or say they feared for their lives because you didn't "drop the weapon" (even if you didn't have one) fast enough.

Maybe I'm a slave for knowing all this, but being ignorant of the facts doesn't make me any more free.
 
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I think it's completely naive to believe the various gub'mint agencies don't already know what you have and when you bought it

Actually, I think it is completely naive to believe that the government agencies either A) KNOW or B) CARE what guns any of us have. Or have any reason to want to know. Or have the ability to know as a general sort of thing.

If you're an individual under investigation for a specific crime or nefarious doings, an agency can find out whatever they need to know in any number of ways, and have been able to long before anyone invented the internet.

If you're just some guy, there's no agency out there squirreling away your firearms ownership info in it's "Guy, J. S." file. There's just no point in it.
 
you're either going to give up some guns or go to jail.
Uh oh.

Not saying we're a bunch of blow-hards... but this place is full of non-verifiable information.
Sure, but don't you know that there are already trained specialists working for the government agencies who comb through the vast amounts of internet forum discussions, detecting those who are not actually embellishing or outright fabricating their personal history, training, political leanings and the amounts/type of firearms they own?

Of course, none of us on this website need worry, since all of us here are "former LEOs," (really, we know this since so many tell us in every thread they post in so as to make their remarks that much more credible) veterans, non-potsmokers, vote in every single election, go to church every Sunday, avail ourselves of all the gun training we can afford, recite the Pledge of Allegiance every morning (even before our first cup of coffee) and routinely call, text or e-mail our local police chief or county sheriff to commend their department on the stellar job their officers and deputies are doing ... No one ever exaggerates or fibs on the internet.

Seriously, though, unless you live totally off the grid (and you wouldn't be here if you did), all your personal info down to whether you wear boxers or briefs is already readily available to those who would seek it.

No sense bragging, it will reap no rewards. The worst one is "where do you live, and why? Unbelievable.
Who here is really bragging? Is there something wrong with being a proud gun-owner or feeling pride in your community or home state?
 
For those of us in parts of the country where you need a permit to carry, the government is already well aware of the fact that we own guns, even if we bought every single gun with cash in a private sale.
 
Indeed. If you're worried that you have to hide your gun ownership, be proud and stand up NOW so that your worries never come true.
 
My sentiments exactly. Stand up proud, fight for your gun rights, and be a shining example of a responsible, law abiding gun owner.

That said, be smart about what you post on the internet. :)
 
Fella's;

And to try to get this one back on track, here's specifically the point.

I'm not talking about 4473 guns, they have a record. I'm talking about, talking about, guns that do not already have a record. The Granpa gun from 1923, etc., things that currently have no paper trail. Many guns manufactured before the advent of GCA-68 were made with no serial number. So, would you make them known to whomever, or just keep quiet about them?

900F
 
There's no paper trail indication purchase, but there's also no paper trail of disposal, whether that was through a FTF sale at some gun show that I can't quite recall the location of or it was lent up against a tree one day and due to my super krylon gutchiiflage I couldn't find it. :)
 
I guess I don't see what difference it would make. If you feel you need to keep a super secret gun, do so. Just figure out exactly what you're saving that gun FROM, and what you're saving that gun FOR, and develop a plan for that gun that actually has some chance of meeting the goal.

Just having a policy of secrecy in general probably won't be enough on its own to do you or your gun any good.
 
Sam1911;

Well, I guess if someone does see the difference, the rest of your conditions have in all probability already been met.

900F
 
Nobody's forcing anybody to post anything. If people want to brag about their guns, this is the place to do it.

It's naive to think the government couldn't find the guns, if it came to that. And if by some chance some guns fell through the cracks, they'd be driven underground. You couldn't use them, and you couldn't even show them to your children (since children tend to blab at school).

This whole idea of keeping certain guns "off the books" is tin-foil hattery.

On the other hand, if it ever really came to the point of resisting tyranny in this country, there would be no shortage of weapons. Check the history of the Resistance to the Nazis during WWII. They usually had no trouble finding guns -- the enemy itself was the biggest source.
 
I'm certainly not worried about a government record. As Sam1911 said, by the time that might matter, there'd be much bigger fish to fry. I do worry a bit about theft, so I try to minimize the information I give out as to location and exif data on pictures. Essentially, there's people that would much easier and more tempting targets for theft than I (I have a small and rather obsolete collection with little value and others are much more open about location), so I don't lose any sleep about it. Frankly, I worry more about local evidence of gun ownership leading to theft than I do online. So I certainly don't have firearms related bumper stickers and I also try to be discreet when I'm unloading anything valuable from my car.

Also, the not signing something isn't always going to ensure no paper trail. I have bills of sale for everything, but beyond that, I would already have at least someone's name and address from looking at their ID, I have the make, model and license plate number of their car and a rough description (all of which I not down separately from my bill of sale for my own records). I don't think people are as anonymous as they think they are...so it's wise to be prudent but there are certainly bigger things to worry about.
 
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