Lee 4 die set questions

Use the 3rd die simply as a boolit seating die only, your crimp will be accomplished by the Factory Crimp Die alone.

When you screw the FCD insert in to touch the case mouth you will definitely feel it. I set my 38SPC dies up so long ago on the turret that I have no clue as to how much I cranked it in but suffice it to say just take it easy.

I've found that FCD's in straight walled pistol brass are the way to go.

Being a newbie, follow the instructions. Then try moving the die up and down and see what effect it has on the brass. Not a lot of moving, quarter or half turn, up and down. You need to get an idea what is happening to the brass, either from moving the die, or a longer case. Which is the same as lowering the die an equivalent amount.


It also helps to keep a couple of factory rounds for comparison to what you produce. I pull the bullets, empty the powder, fire the primer, put the bullet back, and use a green marker to identify the case. Those are the only rounds on my bench; don't want any live ammo on that bench. Have fun.

If your loading lead the FCD can resize the bullet smaller, cause leading. Use the FCD on jacketed only or remove the sizing ring so it's a crimp only.

I removed the sizing ring from my Lee FCD and just use it as a crimp die. I have my dies set so the seater die just irons out any expansion and maybe adds a touch of crimp, and the final stage adds crimp.

The instructions will get you in the ballpark but you will have to experiment with moving the die in/out and the crimp stem/screw in/out until you get what you want for your rounds.

Blue68f100 said:

If your loading lead the FCD can resize the bullet smaller, cause leading. Use the FCD on jacketed only or remove the sizing ring so it's a crimp only.

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Ya know, I've heard this before. I'm not saying that it can't be done but I personally have never had an issue with and all I load is cast boolits. I think what it boils down to is "read & follow the directions" for the die. If properly used the FCD is a great addition especially for auto-loaders.

You can crimp it either way. Use the seating die and have it seat and crimp at the same time or set the seating die to not crimp and then crimp with the FCD. Whatever floats your boat.

If you use the seating die, you need to set the OAL a tad longer as when you turn the whole die in to crimp, it will also seat the bullet a few thousands more.(.055")

Some like the FCD others think it is Evil and it is a whole other argument or discussion.

If you have the LEE manual it is explained very well on page 75-76

I did the same thing...works better for lead bullets.

can I skip that crimp and just crimp the round with the factory crimp die (4th die) at the end?

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Yes, that's exactly the way I do it.

As another newbie I was a little confused at this point also until at some point it started to sink in. Couldn't see the forest for the trees syndrome ...

Maybe it's obvious but it took me a while. I was wondering why there was a "seating/crimping die" and a "factory crimp die". It seemed a little redundant.

Now I understand that the instructions that come with the Lee 4 die set will set things up so that only the seating operation is performed by the bullet seating die and then the crimping operation is performed by the FCD.

In the instructions there is the following sentence: "Screw the bullet seating die in until it touches the shell holder, then back it out three full turns."

The "back it out three full turns" is what sets up the seating die to seat only without applying any crimp.

I'm not trying to talk to any experienced reloaders here; only to other new guys who might be confused the same way I was.

Ya know, I've heard this before. I'm not saying that it can't be done but I personally have never had an issue with and all I load is cast boolits. I think what it boils down to is "read & follow the directions" for the die. If properly used the FCD is a great addition especially for auto-loaders.

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I have the same experience. I load lead in three calibers and have never had the FCD size a bullet. Maybe a oversized lead bullet but not a bullet sized .001 over jacketed.

ddc said:

As another newbie I was a little confused at this point also until at some point it started to sink in. Couldn't see the forest for the trees syndrome ...

Maybe it's obvious but it took me a while. I was wondering why there was a "seating/crimping die" and a "factory crimp die". It seemed a little redundant.

Now I understand that the instructions that come with the Lee 4 die set will set things up so that only the seating operation is performed by the bullet seating die and then the crimping operation is performed by the FCD.

In the instructions there is the following sentence: "Screw the bullet seating die in until it touches the shell holder, then back it out three full turns."

The "back it out three full turns" is what sets up the seating die to seat only without applying any crimp.

I'm not trying to talk to any experienced reloaders here; only to other new guys who might be confused the same way I was.

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The instructions that come with the dies are not the easiest to understand. If you have the Lee manual go to page 75-76 as mentioned above.

Lee 4 die set questions

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Hey All,

I'm a newbie setting up my lee press and specifically the .38 special 4 die set. On the bullet seating crimp die (3rd die)can I skip that crimp and just crimp the round with the factory crimp die (4th die) at the end?

Also I remember in reading some posts that revolver rounds the crimp used is different from the crimp used in semi-auto rounds?

In the instructions for the Factory Crimp Die it says to screw the die in until it just touches the shell holder and back out adjusting screw. (OK I got that) then, push the loaded round into the die. (I got that too) Then, screw in the adjusting screw just until it touches the case mouth (Question: Will this step be obvious in that you wouldn't be able to screw in the adjusting screw any further anyway once it contacts the case mouth?) Then it says to back the cartridge out slightly and turn the adjusting screw in additional ½ turn for light crimp and full turn for heavy crimp ( I Got that)

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On a revolver round with a bullet that has a crimp groove, the location of that groove and the placement of the crimp determines the OAL. It's not something you can tune to any significant extent.

The type of crimp needed is "roll crimp", which exhibits an inward turn at the case mouth, gripping the slope of the crimp groove exactly, with the remainder of the crimp groove barely visible where case meets bullet.

Setting the crimp is a matter of gradual trial and error until you see a definite "roll" inward of the case. This mechanically prevents the bullet from moving forward or backward under recoil or in a lever rifle tube.

The factory crimp die will work until you get to lead bullets. Those are .001 larger. I then go to my Redding Profile Crimp Die. The Hornady or RCBS dies may be okay too, but the Lee FCD's post sizing feature must be avoided with oversized lead. It tries to squeeze the bullet smaller to match an FMJ standard round.

I think I touched all the points. Hope this helps.

RealGun said:

Lee 4 die set questions

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On a revolver round with a bullet that has a crimp groove, the location of that groove and the placement of the crimp determines the OAL. It's not something you can tune to any significant extent.

The type of crimp needed is "roll crimp", which exhibits an inward turn at the case mouth, gripping the slope of the crimp groove exactly, with the remainder of the crimp groove barely visible where case meets bullet.

Setting the crimp is a matter of gradual trial and error until you see a definite "roll" inward of the case. This mechanically prevents the bullet from moving forward or backward under recoil or in a lever rifle tube.

The factory crimp die will work until you get to lead bullets. Those are .001 larger. I then go to my Redding Profile Crimp Die. The Hornady or RCBS dies may be okay too, but the Lee FCD's post sizing feature must be avoided with oversized lead. It tries to squeeze the bullet smaller to match an FMJ standard round.

I think I touched all the points. Hope this helps.

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I've never had an issue with the Lee FCD and lead bullets. I load 357 and 44 SWC mostly.

I also use the FCD on all my lead bullets. It does not normally squeeze a lead bullet that is .001 over a jacketed. If you are shooting .357/.358 in a 9mm it might.

I've never had an issue with the Lee FCD and lead bullets. I load 357 and 44 SWC mostly.

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How nice for those with no problems, but if reading much on the subject, reports from others will show that a bullet and case together can be more diameter than an FCD will allow and that many have avoided use of the FCD with lead. We cannot expect our experience to dismiss that of others.

There is also the issue of whether ones evaluation of having a problem, or not, is suspect. Did they measure or test? We don't know.

Resizing bullets for me has been a problem only with .45 ACP, because in that caliber the diameters are all over the place, while the others have given me good results so far, measuring exactly as advertised.

RealGun, you bring up a point that is being discussed in a current thread.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=730259

they are discussing weather or not a Lyman M die should be used for .358 lead bullets since it not only expands the case mouth but the entire case too. I read the explanation by the bullet company ( I was interested in this company because it is MI based but I have it as a favorite on another computer I use and don't remember it's name at this time only the "thou shalt not Blah blah blah use any other Expander other than the Lyman M" or your lead bullets will be squeezed and deformed. there are many on that thread that say yes use it and others that say not needed, as here with the Lee FCD. Now I know if a bullet is shaved during seating you should be able to see that upon close examination. If a bullet is deformed can that be seen on exam or would you have to use a tool (micrometer/caliper?) to measure the bullets diameter?

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I commented there that I only use the M-die on .45 ACP, since I found those bullets to be either swaged and very soft from Zero or oversized to .454 from Oregon Trail Lazercast. The oversized worked after being resized in a post casting die.

I don't find other calibers larger than advertised or marked on the box like I did with .45 ACP.

I determined that the bullets were being swaged during reloading by pulling test bullets after each operation. It traced back to the sizing die yielding such a tight fit. I was lead to that sampling and troubleshooting after getting muffin tops on the soft swaged bullets and a number of gauging failures that ran okay after I tinkered with the fit and debris at the case mouth.

I also had the oversized bullets displaying a pronounced print of the bullet through the case and a failure to gauge. They were much harder but did lose some size thanks to using an FCD at that time. I have since gone to all Redding crimps, both taper and roll, on those calibers for which I load lead bullets.

The .45 ACP M-die has two stages of expansion. The expansion "ball" does not go deep enough to size the entire case's ID. What would be the point just after a sizing operation? The second step oversizes the first 1/16" according to spec, and I find that to appear to be true.

I still have belling, because I did not eliminate the PTX from the powder drop. Effectively, the M-die is only doing the first 1/16" of the mouth of the case. That assumes the two expansion plugs are the same diameter on the deeper part, or that the M-die is not larger on both levels.

RealGun said:

There is also the issue of whether ones evaluation of having a problem, or not, is suspect. Did they measure or test? We don't know.

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In my case, yes, so now you know.

Originally Posted by RealGun
There is also the issue of whether ones evaluation of having a problem, or not, is suspect. Did they measure or test? We don't know.

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In my case, yes, so now you know.

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I've never had an issue with the Lee FCD and lead bullets. I load 357 and 44 SWC mostly.

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I see the problem with .45 ACP, so far the only one which includes bullets from bullet vendors that are more than .001 larger than the dies expect. Those casting bullets and sizing every round may not see what vendor issues cause, but so far it has been rare to read of a reloader of lead, bullets of which are inherently oversized, endorsing use of an FCD (on lead).

So you aren't loading .45 ACP, which may explain your being unaware of the problem.

This crimping business is a biggie for noobs like myself. Im still trying to figure some of it out. I use the FCD. How do you use the seater die to crimp?

I'd like to learn to do it with the seater to so I know how to use everything on the press.


Lee directions suck btw. They might as well put a note in there that says "figure it out your damn self"!

Potatohead said:

How do you use the seater die to crimp?

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I'll try to answer this in a simplified way.

What I would recommend is to first back out the crimp/seat die and initially use it to seat the boolit to the desired depth. Once you have the boolit seated to the desired depth unscrew the boolit seating plug so that it will not contact the boolit during the next step and possibly alter the boolit depth. Now...run the ram all the way up with the cartridge in the shell holder and the boolit set to the appropriate depth. Once the cartridge is run all the way up, slowly screw the crimp die in until you feel it touch the cartridge. Having done that, now lower the ram out of the way and screw the crimp/seating die in maybe one quarter of a turn. Then run the cartridge up to the full stroke of the ram then remove and check the crimp. Simply keep screwing the crimp/seater die in a quarter turn at a time and checking your crimp until you get it the way you want. Once you have the crimp the way that you want it, run the cartridge all the way up into the crimp/seating die. Then start screwing the boolit seating plug back in until you feel it touch the boolit that you just crimped. This should re-establish your correct seating depth as you originally set it within a couple .001's

Keep in mind that different brass lengths will effect the crimp as they hit the crimp ring at different elevations.

This crimping business is a biggie for noobs like myself. Im still trying to figure some of it out. I use the FCD. How do you use the seater die to crimp?

I'd like to learn to do it with the seater to so I know how to use everything on the press.

Lee directions suck btw. They might as well put a note in there that says "figure it out your damn self"!

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What you need is a conventional crimp die. My choice was Redding. The FCD will not go to waste for straight wall cases that tend to bulge when fired. The Bulge Buster relies on owning an FCD insert for the caliber.

Lee directions work okay for me, but I would be lost without user groups and their shared tips and tricks. That would not include forums somewhat hostile to Lee Precision. Look around.

Lee's paperwork is a bit busy in its format, but it's all there. Do you have an objective example, for which more directions were needed?