jerkface11
Member
8 of your 9 posts are singing the praises of universal background checks.
Private Gun Show FFL transfer...would you use one?
- Thread starter Redlg155
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The private sale is the only thing that is stopping a gun registry. Whether it is admitted to or not. That is why the propaganda is so strong against it, and from what I read it is working.
Keep selling without the .gov permission. It really is for the children, we are the caretakers of their rights.
Keep selling without the .gov permission. It really is for the children, we are the caretakers of their rights.
jerkface11
Member
I guess their new tactic is to try and convince us that it's good for the seller.
oneounceload
member
WHO?
Links, please......
And how many have not been financially ruined? There is no cause, and if you read the post above from someone who actually had the police ask, you saw the result - nothing
Tim the student
Member
I see no reason to do so.
Twiki357
Member
The only concern I would have in a FTF transaction is if I’m the buyer and the gun has been reported stolen. A background check on me ain’t gonna show that. And, the gun is not going to ever be IDed as stolen unless the police get their hands on it for some reason and run a check.
A “Reliable” public accessible database of stolen guns is the only background check I would ever support.
A “Reliable” public accessible database of stolen guns is the only background check I would ever support.
Monte Verde
Member
All I can say is that someone who insists on a "off the books" transaction gives ME a good reason not to sell to them. To each their own....
oneounceload
member
Why? Because they do not want YOU or anyone YOU know to have their personal data? WOW, why would they think that?
I would NEVER do business with someone like you, as you are for gun registration/confiscation and are not a student of history in that regard
I would NEVER do business with someone like you, as you are for gun registration/confiscation and are not a student of history in that regard
BSA1
member
Monte Verde said;
“If you bought your gun through a dealer and sold it FTF without paperwork - the paper trail stops with YOU. Guess who the police are going after if the firearm is recovered at a crime scene or in the hands of a felon?”
Humm…how about the person that used the gun in the crime?
“What proof would you have that you sold it? You would still be the owner of record.”
No…all the 4473 proves is I legally purchased on a certain date. In my state there is no law that prohibits me from selling, trading , giving the gun as a gift in a private transaction with another resident of my state or to keep a record of whom received the gun.
“You will be "on the hook" until cleared and that may be an unpleasant process, that could have been easily avoided. Just stating the reality...”
Please post an real life example and documentation of your claim.
“Yeah, lots of bravado here... I would rather give myself some protection. If the buyer wants an off the books transfer, I have good reason to look for another.”
It is your right not to sell a gun to whomever you want just as it is just as legal for me to purchase a gun legally ftf without Government permission.
“Innocent people have been financially ruined proving their innocence.”
And what does that have to do with the topic of this thread?
Alexander A said “The consensus in this thread seems to be that a no-questions-asked attitude, when selling, is OK. I find this somewhat disturbing -- we can be our own worst enemies at times.”
Actually exercising our rights should make Government Officials uncomfortable. When you ask the Government for permission to do something you are surrender your power and rights to them. The State should fear it’s citizens no the other way around.
“If you bought your gun through a dealer and sold it FTF without paperwork - the paper trail stops with YOU. Guess who the police are going after if the firearm is recovered at a crime scene or in the hands of a felon?”
Humm…how about the person that used the gun in the crime?
“What proof would you have that you sold it? You would still be the owner of record.”
No…all the 4473 proves is I legally purchased on a certain date. In my state there is no law that prohibits me from selling, trading , giving the gun as a gift in a private transaction with another resident of my state or to keep a record of whom received the gun.
“You will be "on the hook" until cleared and that may be an unpleasant process, that could have been easily avoided. Just stating the reality...”
Please post an real life example and documentation of your claim.
“Yeah, lots of bravado here... I would rather give myself some protection. If the buyer wants an off the books transfer, I have good reason to look for another.”
It is your right not to sell a gun to whomever you want just as it is just as legal for me to purchase a gun legally ftf without Government permission.
“Innocent people have been financially ruined proving their innocence.”
And what does that have to do with the topic of this thread?
Alexander A said “The consensus in this thread seems to be that a no-questions-asked attitude, when selling, is OK. I find this somewhat disturbing -- we can be our own worst enemies at times.”
Actually exercising our rights should make Government Officials uncomfortable. When you ask the Government for permission to do something you are surrender your power and rights to them. The State should fear it’s citizens no the other way around.
oneounceload
member
And the lack of proof seems to make our point, BSA1
NavyLCDR
member
Nope.
bigfatdave
Member
Monte Verde said:
If you're stating reality, can you cite an actual case where that happened?
You're giving yourself zero protection. If the trace goes to an FFL that sold you the new gun, then they come bother you. Your response could be any of the following:
-"I sold it to Bob, don't keep in touch with him"
-"I sold it to some guy, but I got a bill of sale, his name was Bob and here's his address"
-"I sold it to some guy at a gun show, I think his name was Bob, maybe?"
-"I sold it to Bob's Boomsticks Unlimited, over on Roberts avenue"
-"I sold it to Bob, he lives next door"
... And at that point, when there's no reason to assume you were involved in the crime, the cops leave (or hang up the phone) and either go investigate your claimed destination or stop bothering with the trace.
You were never "on the hook" unless there was real evidence that you were involved in the crime.
Stop fetishizing guns, FTLOFSM, there's nothing special about a gun that requires a special sales method. There's no "central hall of records" to record every gun ever made/sold. Even if you DO sell through an FFL, the gun's serial # doesn't get reset in the records, the cops will still go to the manufacturer, to go to a distributor, to go to a retail FFL, to go to you.
You're not covering yourself in any meaningful way.
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When I sell stuff FTF via private sale I do not record anything. Except for registered cars. When I sold my car, records were generated. Firearms? No records. A quick look at an ID to verify, within reason, that they are residents of the same state.
If I was buying from somebody, at a gun show, and they wanted to go through an FFL for the transfer, and the FFL was located right there at the gun show and was easy and fast to use, AND it was a firearm I really wanted or a price that was below what I could probably get elsewhere, I might do it. Might not. Can't really say. Would depend on how motivated I was to pay the agreed upon price for that firearm at that time.
If I was buying from somebody, at a gun show, and they wanted to go through an FFL for the transfer, and the FFL was located right there at the gun show and was easy and fast to use, AND it was a firearm I really wanted or a price that was below what I could probably get elsewhere, I might do it. Might not. Can't really say. Would depend on how motivated I was to pay the agreed upon price for that firearm at that time.
bigfatdave
Member
AlexanderA said:
I'd just misuse the system. Run a BGC on a neighbor, claim I sold him all my guns at that point if ever questioned.
Without registration, ANY background check system is garbage (yes, including NICS)
bigfatdave
Member
jerkface11 said:
Now that's interesting, isn't it?
Monte Verde
Member
Didn't sing any praises. I just prefer to make sure my firearms go to a person that isn't prohibited.
Not even a NICS background check on the buyer guarantees that.
Pizzapinochle
member
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And it makes the crack dealers/gun runners day too!! How fantastic, he can sell guns to criminals all day long because there is no way to get caught!
Monte Verde
Member
No it doesn't guarantee it, but I have done all that I can do to make sure it's a legal sale.
You don't need a background check for the sale to be legal.
Which is as it should be.
jerkface11
Member
Yay now we have 2 of them in one thread!!!
Monte Verde
Member
No you don't need a background check for it to be legal, but it raises the odds.
You can sell your firearm to any sleaze bag you want - good for you.
No, it doesn't.
A legal sale is a legal sale. It doesn't become more-legal because you opted to involve the federal government in your transaction.
oneounceload
member
SOMEone gets it............... ;D
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