Help ID'ing old knife

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Bartholomew Roberts

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I received this old knife and the only thing I know about it is that my Great Grandmother used it to butcher hogs in the Oklahoma City stockyards circa 1930-1940. The blade is carbon steel with a good old fashioned patina. It is 11" (measured in a straight line from the upswept tip to the hilt) in length. There are no visible stamps or markings on either side.

The wood and metal inserts on the grip are a bit crude and you can spin them around by grabbing them and twisting, although they do not spin freely. The metal end cap and the part closest to the blade are a little better made and look to be a slightly different metal. I am thinking the original handle was broken and replaced at some point.

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I know we have some very knowledgeable knife guys around here and was hoping I might learn a little more about its history. Looking at it, it is entirely possible it was handmade or locally made; but I thought it might be an interesting puzzle for our members.
 

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Bartholomew Roberts said:
I received this old knife and the only thing I know about it is that my Great Grandmother used it to butcher hogs in the Oklahoma City stockyards circa 1930-1940. The blade is carbon steel with a good old fashioned patina. It is 11" (measured in a straight line from the upswept tip to the hilt) in length. There are no visible stamps or markings on either side.

The wood and metal inserts on the grip are a bit crude and you can spin them around by grabbing them and twisting, although they do not spin freely. The metal end cap and the part closest to the blade are a little better made and look to be a slightly different metal. I am thinking the original handle was broken and replaced at some point.

attachment.php


I know we have some very knowledgeable knife guys around here and was hoping I might learn a little more about its history. Looking at it, it is entirely possible it was handmade or locally made; but I thought it might be an interesting puzzle for our members.
Click to expand...
Can you guess what the composition of the handle is? What is the black matter (rubber, wood?), and the metal (silver, aluminum?) ? From memory of viewing antique edged weapons catalogs several years ago, the curve of the blade and shape of the handle look Persian, Middle Eastern, or Turko-Russian. I am, by no means, an edged weapons expert.
 
The handle pieces are wood with some crudely made metal spacers. The metal end cap and the bolster near the blade look to be more nicely machined and you can just barely see where the blade tang has been polished smooth around the bolster at the hilt.

My guess is that the knife originally had some other handle in the middle but that the metal hilt and end cap are original. The remaining grip pieces are probably a replacement somebody did themselves along the way. If that guess is correct, it may help me narrow it down as it looks like many of the older cimeter style butcher knives had riveted handles.

No idea what the steel is; but it will take a decent edge.
 
I agree it is a blacksmith, or homemade re-handled commercial blade.

The metal spacers are reminiscent of the Theater fighting knives made during WWII.
And during WWII would be my estimate of when it was done.

Probably aluminum from some sort of scrap & ebony from a shaft bearing block in a packing house machine shop.

New civilian knives were in short supply during the war.
And they most likely had their own maintenance people rebuilding butcher knives to get them back on the processing floor as soon as possible.

rc
 
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Bartholomew Roberts said:
I received this old knife and the only thing I know about it is that my Great Grandmother used it to butcher hogs in the Oklahoma City stockyards circa 1930-1940. The blade is carbon steel with a good old fashioned patina. It is 11" (measured in a straight line from the upswept tip to the hilt) in length. There are no visible stamps or markings on either side.

The wood and metal inserts on the grip are a bit crude and you can spin them around by grabbing them and twisting, although they do not spin freely. The metal end cap and the part closest to the blade are a little better made and look to be a slightly different metal. I am thinking the original handle was broken and replaced at some point.

attachment.php


I know we have some very knowledgeable knife guys around here and was hoping I might learn a little more about its history. Looking at it, it is entirely possible it was handmade or locally made; but I thought it might be an interesting puzzle for our members.
Click to expand...

It is almost certainly hand-made, probably a one-of-a-kind. As a very rough guess, I'd say the blade was crafted some time around 1870-1900. I agree that the handle is most likely a replacement, and think it looks sort of 1930-1940-ish. But these are Very rough, and Entirely guesses.

As a family heirloom it is priceless. On the open market, probably not so pricey. Thanks for sharing!

-- Nighteyes
 
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On another topic, I do not understand how handles like that are assembled and put together. Can anyone explain how that works? Riveted handles are fairly obvious; but how do you change out a handle with metal caps like that?
 
I imagine the tang had a bolt welded on it and the butt cap screwed on.

The aluminum guard my have been cast in place.

Others like the classic Buck line had a pin through the butt cap through the tang, and out the other side.
But they are next to invisible after final polishing if made from the same material.

rc
 
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Well, don't know who made the blade but the steel was harder than woodpecker lips to sharpen; however once I finally got the burr going, it was impressively sharp. It might take the record for sharpest blade I've done yet. That old carbon steel is apparently good stuff.
 
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