.357 Mag newbie help

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Spinefarm

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Hello, I am new to reloading and recently bought a Lee Classic Loader in .357 Magnum. I made six rounds and decided to stop there and make sure they worked before loading more. Good thing I did, I shot my first round and it just went pop. Bullet made it 95% out of my barrel but got stuck. Had semi-burned I think(yellow-brown) powder all over my chamber and in chunks in my action.

Now the details. First off, I was shooting out of a S&W Model 19-3 Combat Magnum, 4 inch, Blued.

Lee Classic Loader, .357 Magnum. Neat little kit. Ordered it and all my components except primers and powder from Cabelas.

Remington .357 unprimed brass.

Berry's Cast Bullets, 125 Grain Round Nose Flat Point HC.

Hogdon H110- I think this and my primers don't mix.

Tula Small Pistol Primers- KVB-9

Also, I troubleshot today and realized I skipped the crimping step for some reason. Read my lee reloading manual and the little book that comes with the kit before I started, just slipped my mind I guess. Too excited maybe. But when I tried to go back and crimp the 5 others I loaded, it would only put a crimp line on one side of the brass. I'm working on a level surface don't know what I'm doing wrong. Confused on the whole bullet seating/crimping step. The Lee manual tells you how to set your die for bullet seating....for a real loader not the classic so its a dead end. Also nothing for the classic loader on cirmping in the book.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, sorry for so much to read I just have been waiting to reload forever and am extremely frustrated. Want to fix it. I read around that H110 is slow and works better with magnum primers. I just got it because it said pistol powder and had a .357 load on its list.
 
Have you read The ABC's of Reloading and Metallic Cartridge Reloading? The minimum loads should get the bullet out of the barrel.

I used to perform each step on 50 rounds before moving to the next. The problem with doing so is you'll have cases with powder in them exposed and open. This is fine until you nudge the tray and spill powder everywhere...or miss one and spill out 3/4 of the powder. Always visually check the charge level in every case with the Lee press. I check three times and make a note of it (always take notes).

Second, buy a good set of calipers. Crimp to the specification in the groove on the bullet.

For best results, use the brass, primer and powder specified in the book. I frequently do not do this due to availability of components; you really shouldn't have trouble if you are doing low to 3/4 loads. I wouldn't mix components for a max load.

One trick I found with the Lee Classic Press is to choose a charge at 50% of the listed value. The powder measure on the Lee is not all that great and tends to throw +/- 0.2 or even +/- 0.3 grains depending upon the powder. A light tap on the side of the red powder bin before dumping the powder in the case will make things more consistent. ALWAYS check your charge with a digital scale. Make sure to use a calibration weight before using the scale. I check every round because I try to get within +/- 0.1 grain of my target. I separate the loads into three groups based upon charge weight. This is overkill, but I like consistent loads for target shooting.

Different books will have different charges for the same load. Do not worry too much about this. I build a range between three sources. I then look at the components used and match. If I have the same components as one entry in one of the books, I go with that range. Otherwise, I average the lower end and start loading there. I always use the lowest number for the max load unless I know otherwise. This makes for lower velocity rounds, but that's better than a blown out barrel. If I need hot ammo, I just buy factory ammo.

When you get the money, buy a Dillon press. If you do not want to do that, then consider getting an electronic powder dispenser and stop using the Lee powder system. They're around $250, but charge accuracy is more important than production speed.
 
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Hello....make sure you have the proper powder charge in the case, always start with the minimum . For a test fire you shouldn't need the crimp unless you flared the mouth of the case to much. To crimp ,make sure you give it a firm blow with your hammer, not to hard ,not to soft. Make sure you read and understand all the instructions, and don't go to fast!
I hope this helps
 
H110 may not be a good powder to start with. The min/max window is fairly narrow, so you need to load it precisely and near max charge. When you do, it works well. It also likes a heavy bullet and heavy crimp.
 
Welcome aboard. H110 is not a good choice of powder for cast or plated bullets. Works much better for full powder loads with jacketed bullets. Do you have any other powder available. 2400, HS-6, unique, HP38, bullseye and titegroup are some that i have tried which would give you better results. I'd give the edge to unique due to it's large loading window.

Do you know how much powder that you charged each case with? I would suggest purchasing a scale of some sort. The manual scales seem less finicky than electronic and the Lee is reasonable at around $25.

Not that familiar with the lee kit and how it crimps. Simple method is seat to cannelure and review the sticky on crimping I believe in the reloading forum on this site for excellent pictures.
 
H110 may not be a good powder to start with. The min/max window is fairly narrow, so you need to load it precisely and near max charge. When you do, it works well. It also likes a heavy bullet and heavy crimp.
Exactly right. H110 (and its twin Win 296) are unforgiving powders. They are hard to ignite and have a very narrow performance window. Below that pressure window, burn rate is erratic (in your case dropping to zero). Above that pressure and you are edging up against the maximum your gun, your brass and your primer can contain.

Trail Boss, on the other hand is the most forgiving powder I know of. Best learn with a forgiving powder until you get the mechanical steps down pat.

Many people even begin loading with no primer and no powder, just to be sure they have the metalworking part right before tossing chemicals into the mix.

Thanks for asking our advice and welcome to reloading. Also, thanks for not blowing yourself up the first time out.

Lost Sheep

p.s. There is come disagreement over this, but some believe that charges of H-110 that do not enter the proper pressure range will sometimes re-ignite (or ignite late, after the primer has pushed the bullet down the barrel a few inches). Then the powder ignites and the pressure build-up encounters an obstructed barrel, catastrophically disassembling your gun and possibly your hand. This is sometimes called "detonation" or Secondary Explosive Effect (S.E.E.).
 
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H110 needs a heavy crimp and magnum primers for proper ignition. It also should not be reduced more than 3% from the maximum load to start. It gives top velocities in 357 Magnum when loaded correctly and works best with heavier bullets.

As a newbie you really would be better off starting with a more forgiving faster powder like Unique or Universal. I imagine that your cast bullets will give terrific leading when propelled by H110 too. The high velocity and high heat of H110 mixed with softer lead bullets will have you cursing at the cleaning bench.

I crimp separately with Lee's factory crimp die. The instructions that come with the die will explain how to set it up. In my experience a 3/4 turn down with the crimping stem gives an excellent heavy crimp. With Xtreme plated bullet I only turn the stem down 1/2 turn and I've gotten excellent results with a light roll crimp and mid-range loads. Other loaders curse the Lee crimp die, especially with lead bullets because it can swage down oversized lead bullets. I used to crimp separately with my RCBS seat/crimp die. Having to remove the seating stem every time and readjust it the next reloading session is a pain and if I was going to go back to a regular crimping die I'd buy a second die just to avoid that step. All 357 Magnum loads need a good crimp though.
 
This may help

10 Advices for the novice loader

I have thought of a few things I think are useful for handloaders to know or to consider which seem to be almost universally mentioned, so I put together this list of 10 advices.


Much is a matter of personal taste and circumstance, though. So, all advice carries this caveat, "your mileage may vary".


So you can better evaluate my words, here is the focus of my experience. I load for handguns (44 Mag, 45 ACP, 45 Colt, 454 Casull, 9mm, 357 Mag, 480 Ruger) a couple hundred per sitting and go through 100 to 500 centerfire rounds per month. I don't cast....yet.


When I bought my first gun (.357 Magnum Dan Wesson revolver), I bought, at the same time, a reloading setup because I knew I could not afford to shoot if I did not reload my own ammo. My setup was simple. A set of dies, a press, a 2" x 6" plank, some carriage bolts and wing nuts, a scale, two loading blocks. I just mounted the press on the plank wedged into the drawer of an end table. I did not use a loading bench at all.


It cost me about 1/4 of factory ammo per round and paid for itself pretty quickly.


I still believe in a minimalist approach and and try to keep my inventory of tools low. I do not keep my loading gear set up when not in use, either, but pack them away in small toolboxes until the next loading session.


Now, here are my Ten Advices.


Advice #1 Use Reliable Reference Sources Wisely - Books, Videos, Web Sites, etc.


Study up in loading manuals until you understand the process well, before spending a lot of (or any) money on equipment.


Read as many manuals as you can, for the discussion of the how-to steps found in their early chapters. The reason you want more than one or two manuals is that you want to read differing authors/editors writing styles and find ones that "speak" to you. What one manual covers thinly, another will cover well so give better coverage of the subject; one author or editor may cover parts of the subject more thoroughly than the others. The public library should have manuals you can read, then decide which ones you want to buy. Dated, perhaps but the basics are pretty unchanging.


I found "The ABC's of Reloading" to be a very good reference. Containing no loading data but full of knowledge and understanding of the process. I am told the older editions are better than the newer ones, so the library is looking even better.


There are instructional videos now that did not exist in the '70s when I started, but some are better than others. Filter all casual information through a "B.S." filter.


Only after you know the processing steps of loading can you look at the contents of of a dealer's shelves, a mail-order catalog or a reloading kit and know what equipment you want to buy. If you are considering a loading kit, you will be in a better position to know what parts you don't need and what parts the kits lack. If building your own kit from scratch, you will be better able to find the parts that will serve your into the future without having to do trade-ins.


Advice #2 All equipment is good. But is it good FOR YOU?


Almost every manufacturer of loading equipment makes good stuff; if they didn't, they would lose reputation fast and disappear from the marketplace. Generally you get what you pay for and better equipment costs more. Cast aluminum is lighter and less expensive but not so abrasion resistant as cast iron. Cast iron lasts practically forever. Aluminum generally takes more cleaning and lubrication to last forever. Just think about what you buy. Ask around. Testimonials are nice. But if you think Ford/Chevy owners have brand loyalty, you have not met handloaders. Testimonials with reasoning behind them are better. RCBS equipment is almost all green, Dillon-blue, Lee-red. Almost no manufacturers cross color lines and many handloaders simply identify themselves as "Blue" or whatever. Make your own choices.


About brand loyalties, an example: Lee Precision makes good equipment, but is generally considered the "economy" equipment maker (though some of their stuff is considered preferable to more expensive makes, as Lee has been an innovator both in price leadership which has introduced many to loading who might not otherwise have been able to start the hobby and in introduction of innovative features like their auto-advancing turret presses). But there are detractors who focus on Lee's cheapest offerings to paint even their extremely strong gear as inferior. My advice: Ignore the snobs.


On Kits: Almost every manufacturer makes a kit that contains everything you need to do reloading (except dies and the consumables). A kit is decent way to get started. Eventually most people wind up replacing most of the components of the kit as their personal taste develops (negating the savings you thought the kit gave you), but you will have gotten started, at least.


On building your own kit: The thought processes you give to assembling your own kit increases your knowledge about reloading. You may get started a couple weeks later than if you started with a kit, but you will be far ahead in knowledge.


Advice #3 While Learning, don't get fancy. Progressive, turret or Single Stage? Experimental loads? Pushing performance envelopes? Don't get fancy.


While you are learning, load mid-range at first so overpressures are not concerns. Just concentrate on getting the mechanical steps of loading right and being VERY VERY consistent (charge weight, crimp strength, bullet seating depth, primer seating force, all that). Use a voluminous, "fluffy", powder that is, one that is easy to see that you have charged the case and which will overflow your cartridge case if you mistakenly put two powder charges in it.


While learning, only perform one operation at a time. Whether you do the one operation 50 (or 20) times on a batch of cases before moving on to the next operation - "Batch Processing" or take one case through all the sequence of operations between empty case to finished cartridge - "Continuous Processing", sometimes known as "Sequential Processing", learn by performing only one operation at a time and concentrating on THAT OPERATION. On a single stage press or a turret press, this is the native way of operation. On a progressive press, the native operation is to perform multiple operations simultaneously. Don't do it. While you can learn on a progressive press, in my opinion too many things happen at the same time, thus are hard to keep track of (unless you load singly at first). Mistakes DO happen and you want to watch for them ONE AT A TIME. Until handloading becomes second nature to you.


Note: A turret press is essentially a single stage press with a moveable head which can mount several dies at the same time. What makes it like a single stage rather than a progressive is that you are still using only one die at a time, not three or four dies simultaneously at each stroke.


On the Turret vs Single stage the decision is simpler. You can do everything on a Turret EXACTLY the same way as you do on a single stage (just leave the turret stationary). That is, a Turret IS a single stage if you don't rotate the head.


Learning on a progressive can be done successfully, but it is easier to learn to walk in shoes than on roller skates.


Also, a good, strong, single stage press is in the stable of almost every reloader I know, no matter how many progressives they have. They always keep at least one.


Advice #4 Find a mentor.


There is no substitute for someone watching you load a few cartridges and critiquing your technique BEFORE you develop bad habits or make a dangerous mistake. (A mistake that might not have consequences right away, but maybe only after you have escaped trouble a hundred times until one day you get bit, for instance having case lube on your fingers when you handle primers; 99 times, no problem because primers are coated with a sealant, but the hundredth primer may not be perfectly sealed and now winds up "dead")


I started loading with the guy who sold me my press watching over my shoulder as I loaded my first 6 rounds to make sure I did not blow myself up, load a powderless cartridge or set off a primer in the press. I could have learned more, faster with a longer mentoring period, but I learned a lot in those first 6 rounds, as he explained each step. I educated myself after that. But now, on the internet, I have learned a WHOLE LOT MORE. But in-person is still the best.


After you have been mentored, mentor someone else. Not necessarily in loading or the shooting sports, but in SOMETHING in which you are enthusiastic and qualified. Just give back to the community.


Advice #5 Design your loading space for safety, efficiency, cleanliness


Your loading bench/room is tantamount to a factory floor. There is a whole profession devoted to industrial engineering, the art and science of production design. Your loading system (layout, process steps, quality control, safety measures, etc) deserves no less attention than that.

Place your scale where it is protected from drafts and vibration and is easy to read and operate. Place you components' supplies convenient to the hand that will place them into the operation and the receptacle(s) for interim or finished products, too. You can make a significant increase in safety and in speed, too, with well thought out design of your production layout, "A" to "Z", from the lighting to the dropcloth to the fire suppression scheme.


Advice #6 Keep Current on loading technology


Always use a CURRENT loading manual. Ballistic testing has produced some new knowledge over the years and powder chemistry has changed over the years, too. They make some powders differently than they used to and even some powder names may have changed. However, if you are using 10 year old powder, you may want to check a 10 year old manual for the recipe. Then double check with a modern manual and then triple check with the powder maker.


Read previous threads on reloading and watch videos available on the web. But be cautious. There is both good information and bad information found in casual sources, so see my advice #10.


Advice #7 You never regret buying the best (but once)


When you buy the very best, it hurts only once, in the wallet. When you buy too cheaply it hurts every time you use the gear. The trick is to buy good enough (on the scale between high quality and low price) to keep you happy without overpaying for features you don't need. "The delicious flavor of low price fades fast. The wretched aftertaste of poor quality lingers long."


Advice #8 Tungsten Carbide dies (or Titanium Nitride) rather than tool steel.

T-C dies instead of regular tool steel (which require lubrication for sizing your brass) for your straight-walled cartridge cases. T-C dies do not require lubrication, which will save you time. Carbide expander button for your bottlenecked cases. Keeps lube out of the inside of the cases.


Advice #9 Safety Always Safety All Ways.


Wear eye protection, especially when seating primers. Gloves are good, too, especially if using the Lee "Hammer" Tools. Children (unless they are good helpers, not just playing around) are at risk and are a risk. Pets, too unless they have been vetted (no, not that kind of vetting). Any distractions that might induce you to forget charging a case (no charge or a double charge, equally disturbing). Imagine everything that CAN go wrong. Then imagine everything that you CAN'T imagine. I could go on, but it's your eyes, your fingers, your house, your children (present of future - lead is a hazard, too. Wash after loading and don't eat at your bench). Enough said?


Advice #10 Take all with a grain of salt.

Verify for yourself everything you learn. Believe only half of what you see and one quarter of what you hear. That goes double for everything you find on the internet (with the possible exception of the actual web sites of the bullet and powder manufacturers). This advice applies to my message as much as anything else and especially to personal load recipes. Hare-brained reloaders might have dangerous habits and even an honest typographical error could be deadly. I heard about a powder manufacturer's web site that dropped a decimal point once. It was fixed REAL FAST, but mistakes happen. I work in accounting and can easily hit "7" instead of "4" because they are next to each other on the keypad.


Good luck.


Lost Sheep
 
More advice

I have compiled a few web sites that seem to have some good information (only some of which came from me).

Go get a large mug of whatever you sip when you read and think and visit these sites.

Sticky-contains much general information.
For the New Reloader: Thinking about Reloading; Equipment Basics -- READ THIS FIRST - THR
thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=238214

Sticky-contains much general information.
For the New Reloader: Equipment Basics -- READ THIS FIRST - The Firing Line Forums
thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230171

"Lee Classic Loader Kit" My post, Minimalist minimal is the seventh post down.
RugerForum.com ? View topic - Lee Classic Loader Kit
rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=107332

"45 Colt question-Lee loader" Another Lee Classic Loader thread
45 Colt question-Lee loader - The Firing Line Forums
thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=498638

"Is the lee classic loader a good starter loader?" A thread from someone considering the Mallet-driven Lee Classic Loader.
Is the lee classic loader a good starter loader? - The Firing Line Forums
thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=497313

"Newby needs help." (A typical new reloader thread). My posts are 11 and 13
Newby needs help. - The Firing Line Forums
thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=430391

There were others in my list, but they were looking at equipment questions more than loading help, so I deleted them in the interest of brevity.

Good luck

Lost Sheep
 
Woah. H110 is a powder that you do not undercharge nor should you use with lead cast boolits. Simply put a proper charge behind a lead boolit will slick your bores
With lead in a real hurry. What was your charge? They call for 21-22 behind a 125gr jacketed bullet. If you can track down hp38 or win231(same thing) grab that and put 7.5gr behind a Berry's or extreme 125gr plated bullet... That's a real sweet shooting load
 
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Sounds like it was undercharged. There have been many good links to info on that in the thread for you. And yes, with H110 a good solid crimp is needed.

Here is a pic of a nicely crimped round.
attachment.php


The pic came from this thread about crimping.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=469815&page=2

Welcome to THR
 
His problem is a failure to ignite. This will happen with H110/296 in .357 Mag when not using magnum primers even if everything else (charge weight, seating depth, crimp) is correct. In my experience, only about 80% of the rounds ignited properly using WSP primers. With WSPM, I get 100% ignition.
 
I agree with Mahansm, failure to launch is an inherent problem with your primer/powder setup.

"Hogdon H110- I think this and my primers don't mix."

I started reloading decades ago with the same setup, in the same caliber. Lee Whack-A-Mole, .38/.357.
The easy cure is to switch either your powder or your primers, or both.
IMHO, buy a can of Unique to use with the rest of your standard primers and a box of Magnum primers to use with the H110 if you really want to finish off the can. H110 is not the optimum powder for this load.
The upside of using unique is you'll burn about 1/3 as much powder per round, The downside, Unique's nickname, in my circle of friends, is "Flaming Dirt".
I load .357 with either 2400 or Unique, with small pistol, (not magnum) primers and have not had a "Failure to launch" in decades.
My third choice for powder for your load would be Bullseye, availability IS a factor in these troubled times.
Your mileage may vary.
 
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W296/H110 require a Mag Primer. Even in WW manual they say that a mag primer is required. They also comment on not to use their LP primer as a Mag primer. Only the cup is is heavier not the extended hotter burn. But most all mag pistols take a SP so this does not come into play too often.
 
H110 needs magnum primers to properly ignite.

H110 will not perform properly if reduced to below published start charge. What charge weight are you using, and have you verified it on a scale?

Mouths must have a good roll crimp, with this powder especially. Without a roll crimp, the bullets will jump out of the mouths as they approach battery during live fire. And the lack of a crimp cold also cause poor ignition.

GS
 
Lost Sheep, Walkalong and others... WOW, nice collection of info here. LS, especially the "10 advices"!
Nice work all... this thread is a treasure book.!

Spinefarm (OP) Welcome to the board and see why I like this place so much!
 
I agree H110 is not the right powder for cast. The OP did not say what his load was, but I would suspect a low charge along with the lack of a crimp created his problem, rather than the primer. Most manuals do in fact call for magnum primers with .357, but during the recent component shortage, I shot hundreds of .357 rounds using 15.5 gr. of H110, 158 grain Speer Gold Dots & Hornady XTPs, and WSP and Rem 1 1/2 primers ( regular small pistol) with zero ignition/ firing problems in my Ruger GP100. In fact, it is my most accurate load in the Ruger.
To Spinefarm - these bullets are jacketed - they can withstand higher powder charges, & higher velocities than lead. For your cast bullets, something like Win 231 or HP38 would be better.
 
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No one has really mentioned that his recipe is a poor one on a few accounts.if he would have assembled the same load with a fast powder they would have all gone off.loads need to have a balance in components.hence the powder he is using is for full magnum loads.the bullets are low velocity plinking type and the primers are for most powders accept h110 296 and such.first question someone new to reloading should ask themselves is what kind of loads i want to make.fast powders are scary in large volume cases as double charges are easy to miss..slow powders work better with heavier bullets and the type of bullet material needs to be considered.I disagree that h110 is not good with cast bullets as i shoot a 180 grn 18bhn .358 bullet over mag primer out of my gp100 4" that shoots awesome.Absolutely no leading .for components op has unique is good suggestion.put h110 away till has correct components to go with.Jimbob123
 
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