Shotgun for Polar bear defence

Dr.Rob said:

While I don't plan to go to Svalbard that was a neat read.

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Yes it was.
Not sure what that guy was doing in the last pic on page 11, but I'd hate to be him if that bear suddenly woke up

Don't worry. I would bet money that rifles are out off camera and the bear would be a bloody rug if it woke up early. Like I said in an earlier post, UNIS has a real good track record for safety and their people are in the field day in and day out. I've seen their school policy on polar bear safety and it pretty much ends with "If the bear continues to show aggression, kill the bear. Begin firing at (small diagram of kill zone) and continue to shoot until the bear stops moving". You should get a feel after reading through that brochure that they prefer to deal with things at a distance and not wait until the bear is in your face chewing on you. They are not really into laying down, playing dead, and squirting bear spray when you can smell the bear's bad breath. Their policy is more like, when you first see him, scare him off. If you can't scare him off, shoot him.

Stoeger SxS.

Those polar bears won't know what hit them

blarby said:

Thats gospel right there.

OP : How many rounds are you going/able to carry ?

Those brennekes or even the dupleks would be a great choice.

I personally have tried these:

http://ddupleks.com/index.php/en/1270-cal/monolit-32.html

But obviously not on bear ! You can see some of their penetration tests vs rifles here :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-T_SlKM8_A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um02l2SK6bU


The monolit is one tough cookie. I have yet to test a slug for penetration ( even my own feeble attempts) that did better.






Somebody mentioned the Marine model shotgun. Given your use, I can't think of anything more apt.

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Speaking of recoil issues, if you are worried about it...you could put a Knoxx recoil reducing stock on it like I did on my 870. 3 in magnum loads of any type are no sweat. I had my gunsmith put mine one and I'll never go back.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/420928/blackhawk-knoxx-specops-gen-2-adjustable-length-of-pull-recoil-reducing-stock-with-forend-remington-870-12-gauge-synthetic-black

Recoil??

If I may quote the Maharaja of Cooch Behar.

"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant."

If "I" was the lunch entrée for a Polar Bear, recoil would be the last thing on my mind.

For a 1500lb bear you need a rifle, not a shotgun with slugs. All one has to do is look at what works in Africa, that is what works on big bears. Shotgun slugs are simply not heavy enough relative to their diameter for deep penetration. Yes, a 3/4" hunk of lead is scary looking but even the Black Magic has a quarter inch hollow skirt and a hole nearly all the way through the middle. Piss poor when penetration is critical.

The USFS study is completely worthless. It is outdated and wasn't very good when it was conducted. The .45/70 loads they used were low pressure Trapdoor-appropriate and the bullets used are soft. Compared to REAL penetrators, the 220gr .30-06 CoreLokt doesn't do very well but it did very well in that test. Because the test is heavily flawed. I know some folks think the study is the last word but it just isn't so.

Here's really the only definitive thing... Alaska fish and game, who is in contact with big bears more than any other group of people, uses Brenneke's and an 870. If they're confident with it, I would be.

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This logic is foolish and there is nothing definitive about it. I wouldn't make my choice based on that of an underfunded government entity. We don't trust them with anything else, why would we trust our lives to their choice in bear guns? By their own words, they would prefer to issue .375's but they are cost prohibitive. They can outfit officers with three or four shotguns for the cost of one .375. They issue shotguns because they are cheap and plentiful. NOTHING more. Certainly not because they are the best tool for the job.

Another option certainly...but how much better with the right slugs is debatable.

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Not debatable at all. A good 400-500gr .45/70 is going to penetrate DOUBLE what even the best shotgun slugs will do.

A Holstein bull has reached 5000 lbs.

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A 5000lb Holstein??? I have to call BS on that one. No bovine gets that big. 3500lbs is a monster for any breed. The world record Holstein is 2500lbs.

Here we go again.... Did you not just get your "shotguns suck and can't penetrate anything" fill the other week?

CraigC, I might have said the same thing....until I actually read up on what a brenneke slug is.

Guys, ignore him and maybe he'll go back to posting pictures of pretty guns. No point in arguing with someone who doesn't know what they are talking about but posts a bunch of condescending B.S. anyways, then fails to back it up with any data.
He's trolling.

"what works in africa"...so he's supposed to buy an expensive, long, heavy double rifle in an exotic caliber to carry as a defensive gun 24/7 including many helicopter trips for a short term work assignment near the arctic circle? Did you even read the O.P's post?

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I love my shotguns. I also love my rifles. It's about the right tool for the job, and circumstances vary.

For example, for anyone that has read anything in Fred Fuller's links in Post 70 they would see that in Svalbard, anyway, it is highly recommended that when a polar bear breaches 150 yards to use a rifle; 30-06 minimum. At ranges of 30 yards or less, a "12 calibre" (we all know that 12 ga is not a caliber; that would be .75) shotgun loaded with slugs.

While I do not anticipate any confrontations with polar bears any time soon (although I am intrigued by images of Svalbard and the region), this thread reminds me of what I'd need to fend off an aggressive, approaching grizz. I have the shotguns, I'm going to stock Brennekes (along with the other slugs in the stash) and get my hands on that Ruger m77 Alaskan in .416.

I'd bet on the 06, in an autoloader, stopping charges better than the 45-70, if the auto user knows to practice getting swift brain hits. Chest hits too often mean nothing, for several seconds, at the least, even if you blow apart the heart.

Craig you are wrong about lots of things, there was a 5000 lb Holstein. Look it up, but since you don't go by anything scientific or factual you probably won't.

Edited: do not feed the troll.

The animal I referred to was named Mt Katahdin 5000 lbs. owed by AS Rand of Stetson, Maine. His teammate Granger weighted 4800 lbs. there are several at over 4000 lbs.currently the worlds largest id named Floino in Italy at 4200 lbs.
As far as the 45/70 vs shotgun, according to manufactures data, slug loads surpass 45/70 loads and a variety of bullet types are available. I don't know about hand loads and over pressure loads. It is about both penetration and vital tissue destruction. 45/70 guys seem to think penetration without much cavitation or tissue damage is ok. It is not. Neither a slug or 45/70 is great on that score, but I would agree the 45/70 might have better penetration depending on choice of ammo. Shot placement is critical, a 45/70 is accurate further out but a shotgun might be quicker and easier to point. I have no problem with what you choose.

A 12 ga hardcast slug or a 400+ grain hardcast 45-70 bullet, inside of 20 yds, shot placed in the vitals, EITHER will do the job.

I would pick one and practice putting 2-3 well placed shots into an approaching target in rapid succession. Only then will *you* be confident in your choice, and that is all that matters.

IMO, one downside of the lever gun is working the lever and trigger with bulky gloves...been there, done that...it requires a little practice/prep...don't wait until the bear is approaching to try it