It seems like cops carry guns for offensive reasons and the cops in England do not carry guns so are you saying no one in England obeys laws because they do not have a gun pointed at their head?
NJ legislature makes deal - 10 rd limit exchanged for reasonable deviations
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No, NJ says that if you don't have a FID you can't transport at all.
WITH the card you can transport directly to/from a range, FFL, hunting venue, etc.
Willie
Wille you're wrong. NJ gun laws can be confusing. If you just read NJS 2C:39-5 it reads all guns are illegal unless you have a permit to carry a handgun or have a Firearms Purchaser's ID (which is a purchaser's card, you need to purchase long guns and pistol ammo but more on that later).
NJS 2C:39-6 lists the exemptions for possessing firearms which include home, your property, place of business (if you own it), to and from home and place of business, when moving, to and from a range, hunting and a few other activities.
http://njsp.org/about/fire_trans.html
This will take you to the NJSP website which details transportation in the state and through the state. There is no mention of needing a FPID. It also references the statute if you want to read all the exemptions. It also references FOPA.
If you read NJS 2C:39-5 it prohibits possessing a long gun without a FPID and in 2C:39-6 lists the exemptions to this. Based on this you can legally have an unloaded long gun slung over your shoulder and walk down the street with it if you have a FPID although I wouldn't advise. You can keep an unloaded long gun in your car or boat properly secured all the time as long as you have a FPID and are not taking it in a courthouse or on to school property in NJ. I don't think they did this on purpose. I think this happened when the NJ Legislature tried to write laws banning all guns except what we allowed you to do. Not because of any benevolence. Now IANAL but what I said here about carrying your long gun with a FPID is also the opinion of Evan Nappen, firearms attorney, and included in his book on NJ firearms law.
At one time (30+ years ago or so) there were hunters say from NY enroute to PA being stopped in NJ and arrested because they were in possession of firearms without FPIDs. To my knowledge none of these cases were prosecuted and NJ including "traveling" as one of the exemptions. This was years before FOPA.
There are other statutes in NJ which make one think something is illegal or required until you read on and read the exemptions.
WITH the card you can transport directly to/from a range, FFL, hunting venue, etc.
Willie
Wille you're wrong. NJ gun laws can be confusing. If you just read NJS 2C:39-5 it reads all guns are illegal unless you have a permit to carry a handgun or have a Firearms Purchaser's ID (which is a purchaser's card, you need to purchase long guns and pistol ammo but more on that later).
NJS 2C:39-6 lists the exemptions for possessing firearms which include home, your property, place of business (if you own it), to and from home and place of business, when moving, to and from a range, hunting and a few other activities.
http://njsp.org/about/fire_trans.html
This will take you to the NJSP website which details transportation in the state and through the state. There is no mention of needing a FPID. It also references the statute if you want to read all the exemptions. It also references FOPA.
If you read NJS 2C:39-5 it prohibits possessing a long gun without a FPID and in 2C:39-6 lists the exemptions to this. Based on this you can legally have an unloaded long gun slung over your shoulder and walk down the street with it if you have a FPID although I wouldn't advise. You can keep an unloaded long gun in your car or boat properly secured all the time as long as you have a FPID and are not taking it in a courthouse or on to school property in NJ. I don't think they did this on purpose. I think this happened when the NJ Legislature tried to write laws banning all guns except what we allowed you to do. Not because of any benevolence. Now IANAL but what I said here about carrying your long gun with a FPID is also the opinion of Evan Nappen, firearms attorney, and included in his book on NJ firearms law.
At one time (30+ years ago or so) there were hunters say from NY enroute to PA being stopped in NJ and arrested because they were in possession of firearms without FPIDs. To my knowledge none of these cases were prosecuted and NJ including "traveling" as one of the exemptions. This was years before FOPA.
There are other statutes in NJ which make one think something is illegal or required until you read on and read the exemptions.
Willie Sutton
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"NJ gun laws can be confusing".
Indeed. I lived there for nearly 50 years, and applied for my FID and my first pistol permit on my 18th birthday. Memberships in Shongum, Old Bridge, and Hopatcong clubs over the years, and shot rifle at Cherry Ridge as well as small bore at PJ O'Hare's in Roseland, "way back when". I'm the guy who was arrested in 1982 and indicted, and who then prevailed against the forces of evil after assembling an AR-15 on a legally purchased lower under NJ's law regarding "manufacturing a firearm". Seems that they thought that taking a serialized part and rendering it operable was "manufacturing"... So been there, done that with the NJ "Make a Criminal if you can't find a real one to arrest" system. If you've assembled an AR-15 in NJ since then you can thank me for laying the groundwork of the way they now enfore the law.
I'll read the citations you provide with interest before adding anything else. I've made it a bit of a speciality to be a jailhouse lawyer on the NJ subject but am always interested in reading more.
Best,
Willie
.
Indeed. I lived there for nearly 50 years, and applied for my FID and my first pistol permit on my 18th birthday. Memberships in Shongum, Old Bridge, and Hopatcong clubs over the years, and shot rifle at Cherry Ridge as well as small bore at PJ O'Hare's in Roseland, "way back when". I'm the guy who was arrested in 1982 and indicted, and who then prevailed against the forces of evil after assembling an AR-15 on a legally purchased lower under NJ's law regarding "manufacturing a firearm". Seems that they thought that taking a serialized part and rendering it operable was "manufacturing"... So been there, done that with the NJ "Make a Criminal if you can't find a real one to arrest" system. If you've assembled an AR-15 in NJ since then you can thank me for laying the groundwork of the way they now enfore the law.
I'll read the citations you provide with interest before adding anything else. I've made it a bit of a speciality to be a jailhouse lawyer on the NJ subject but am always interested in reading more.
Best,
Willie
.
But Jeff, I thought we had a deal buddy?
You know, the one where I can carry you around on my shoulders to protect me until my concealed carry permit arrives.
Being serious, Jeff is right; Police have absolutely no "duty to protect" - there's a Federal court ruling specifically about that topic, which clears them of any wrongdoing if they choose not to protect a citizen from danger.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia
jerkface11
Member
Oh good now Christie can veto this and claim he's pro 2nd amendment.
JRH6856
Member
Trent said:
You are confusing or conflating two issues and the one you are addressing was not the subject of this exchange (or even mentioned that I can recall). No one said anthing about a police responsibility to protect. The subject is police carrying firearms for self defense, not the protection of individual citizens other than themselves.
bushmaster1313
Member
Let's get something straight.
The current prohibition in New Jersey on reasonable deviations only applies to handguns.
Handguns can only be carried directly to and from places where the owner is allowed to have them.
As far as I can tell, there is no prohibition on a person with a New Jersey Firearms Card carring an unloaded long gun.
The real compromise would be to trade 10 round magazine limit for shall issue.
The current prohibition in New Jersey on reasonable deviations only applies to handguns.
Handguns can only be carried directly to and from places where the owner is allowed to have them.
As far as I can tell, there is no prohibition on a person with a New Jersey Firearms Card carring an unloaded long gun.
The real compromise would be to trade 10 round magazine limit for shall issue.
bushmaster1313
Member
Show me the prohibition on a person with the card carrying a long gun not directly
bushmaster1313
Member
BTW
I do not think it unconstitutional for a state to ban magazines more than 10 rounds.
I do not think it unconstitutional for a state to ban magazines more than 10 rounds.
bushmaster1313
Member
Hey Goon.
Cool your jets.
I was defending the 2nd Amendment when you were in diapers.
Cool your jets.
I was defending the 2nd Amendment when you were in diapers.
Krusty783
Member
Sorry to rain on your parade bucko, but these views are not generally considered "defending the 2nd Amendment" by most of our members. Remember that whole "...shall not be infringed." part.
bushmaster1313 said:
Age has nothing to do with it. You could be 20 or 100 - you're still wrong.
Having said that, by all means, please keep right on defending the Second Amendment in NJ.
Because the rest of us... we ain't so keen on magazine capacity limits. So if you can please keep that from spreading out of your lovely state, the rest of us would greatly appreciate it. Please protect the Second Amendment that much more by not spreading your misconceptions across our borders.
There doesn't seem to be a good trade to be had for gun owners here. It reminds me of LawDog's "Ok. I'll play." In exchange for being able to stop for a potty break on the way to the range, mag limits will be imposed?
thunder173
Member
Would somebody please flush that toilet. It's starting to stink again. I escaped 23 years ago.i will never go back. We used to have a saying: "If God were to give the world an enema,..he'd stick it in the heart of Trenton."...... And that's about as high road as I can get in regards to the "Garden State".....
I find the following "Reasonable"
Scrap the antiquated 1966 FID system
Shall Issue Conceal Carry with reciprocation with every state
Repeal the one handgun every 30 day limit
Repeal the Graves Act
Repeal the Assault Weapons ban
Repeal NFA ban and Machine gun restrictions
Repeal Mag Limits
Repeal Sling Shot ban
Reclassify airguns as a non firearm
Reclassify Black Powder firearms as antiques
Reduce State NICS fee from $15 to $1 or go to Free Fed NICS
Expand firearm sales to include Sundays and Public Holidays and longer daily hours
Outlaw "Ceasefire NJ"
Anti-gun politicians required to go to sensitivity training
Scrap the antiquated 1966 FID system
Shall Issue Conceal Carry with reciprocation with every state
Repeal the one handgun every 30 day limit
Repeal the Graves Act
Repeal the Assault Weapons ban
Repeal NFA ban and Machine gun restrictions
Repeal Mag Limits
Repeal Sling Shot ban
Reclassify airguns as a non firearm
Reclassify Black Powder firearms as antiques
Reduce State NICS fee from $15 to $1 or go to Free Fed NICS
Expand firearm sales to include Sundays and Public Holidays and longer daily hours
Outlaw "Ceasefire NJ"
Anti-gun politicians required to go to sensitivity training
JRH6856
Member
OK, would you like to explain your reasoning?
Horny Toad
Member
...
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Yeah, I wonder if that isn't part of the problem as a whole.
I remember when I was growing up that my dad had no use for semi-auto rifles (not that we could have afforded any then anyhow) because "you couldn't hunt with them."
I adopted that opinion too as a teenager, not having the slightest comprehension what the Bill of Rights was really about.
Thankfully, military service, reading, and one outstanding history professor helped me correct my understanding of the Bill of Rights. But I fear that some residents of states like New Jersey are so accustomed to asking permission to exercise their "rights" that it's an uphill battle even to even open their eyes.
As for this kid, I'm a law-abiding citizen and I may be forced to accept more gun control eventually. But that doesn't mean I'll be blind enough to believe its for my own good.
I remember when I was growing up that my dad had no use for semi-auto rifles (not that we could have afforded any then anyhow) because "you couldn't hunt with them."
I adopted that opinion too as a teenager, not having the slightest comprehension what the Bill of Rights was really about.
Thankfully, military service, reading, and one outstanding history professor helped me correct my understanding of the Bill of Rights. But I fear that some residents of states like New Jersey are so accustomed to asking permission to exercise their "rights" that it's an uphill battle even to even open their eyes.
As for this kid, I'm a law-abiding citizen and I may be forced to accept more gun control eventually. But that doesn't mean I'll be blind enough to believe its for my own good.
bushmaster1313
Member
The Constitution takes certain political questions off the table.
But in the same vein, certain political questions are left to be decided as a matter of politics.
There is a right to keep and bear arms, and that includes inside and outside of the home,
But it is clear from the historical context that the State can ban one, but not both, of concealed or open carry.
The 2nd Amendment, like the 1st, is subject to restrictions.
IMHO, while the People cannot be prohibited from bearing arms outside the home, the State can say: "A person carrying ten in the magazine and one in the pipe is bearing arms and larger magazines are not allowed."
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About the first time I heard the term "reasonable" used in regard to gun laws, it concerned a proposal for the roundup and summary execution of everyone who had ever owned a gun or whose ancestors ever owned a gun. It's proponents called it a "reasonable" and "refreshing" approach to gun control.
Nuff sed.
Jim
Nuff sed.
Jim
bushmaster1313 said:
In that case, I'm kind of hoping NJ decides on a five round limit. A Ruger LCR, SP-101, or S&W J-frame Airweight holds five rounds. Readily available, well-suited for bearing arms outside the home, and five rounds are enough for any reasonable person.
Only gangbangers and mass shooters need more than five rounds, so I think that'd be enough for your defensive uses.
JRH6856
Member
But restrictions of core rights must pass strict scrutiny.
What compelling, crucial government interest necessitates such a restriction?
How is such an arbitrary limit carefully tailored to achieve this crucial interest?
Is such an arbitrary limit the least restrictive measure available for achieving the crucial interest?
Queen_of_Thunder
member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bushmaster1313 View Post
BTW
I do not think it unconstitutional for a state to ban magazines more than 10 rounds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bushmaster1313 View Post
Hey Goon.
Cool your jets.
I was defending the 2nd Amendment when you were in diapers.
Krusty
bushmaster1313 is 100% right in his statement in regards to the Constitutionality of magazine limits. The SCOTUS has not ruled on such an issue and there are states where magazine limits exist and they have yet to be declared Unconstitutional as far as I know. SO instead of opening your mouth and confirming you are incapable of thought please take a moment to stay silent and work on your critical thinking skills and reading comprehension skills as both are lacking.
Now I'll go bushmaster1313 one step more and tell you right now that within 10 years there is an 80% chance that there will be a nationwide magazine limit imposed. It will be deemed a reasonable restriction by non other than the US Supreme Court.
Now you and others can get all huffy and generate more hot air or you can get yourself in gear and start working to strengthening our side. Jumping on your allies is counter productive. You want to win this battle then you have to get out there and start winning people to our side one person at a time.
One problem we have is that a great number of us neither bother to vote or are probably not even registered to vote. There should not be a gun show running in America that someone is not there to get people registered to vote. There should be local blogs keeping the local community informed on the issues of the day in addition to RKBA issues.
So I challenge you, goon. Horny Toad and anyone else to the following:
The Get 1 Challenge
1. Get 1 person who has never been to the range to fire a weapon or 1 who hasn't been to the range in years to the range.
2. Sit down and send 1 hand written, hand signed letter to your local Congressman in support of the Second Amendment.
3. Schedule 1 meeting with your local Congressman when they are in town to discuss his position on the Second Amendment.
4. Spend 1 day a month studying your local issues in addition to the issues of the RKBA.
5. Get 1 new voter registered to vote.
6. Work 1 campaign this year so you can learn the process and understand what it takes to get elected to office and what it takes to stay in office. Learn the process. Understand the process.
7. Network.
Originally Posted by bushmaster1313 View Post
BTW
I do not think it unconstitutional for a state to ban magazines more than 10 rounds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bushmaster1313 View Post
Hey Goon.
Cool your jets.
I was defending the 2nd Amendment when you were in diapers.
Krusty
bushmaster1313 is 100% right in his statement in regards to the Constitutionality of magazine limits. The SCOTUS has not ruled on such an issue and there are states where magazine limits exist and they have yet to be declared Unconstitutional as far as I know. SO instead of opening your mouth and confirming you are incapable of thought please take a moment to stay silent and work on your critical thinking skills and reading comprehension skills as both are lacking.
Now I'll go bushmaster1313 one step more and tell you right now that within 10 years there is an 80% chance that there will be a nationwide magazine limit imposed. It will be deemed a reasonable restriction by non other than the US Supreme Court.
Now you and others can get all huffy and generate more hot air or you can get yourself in gear and start working to strengthening our side. Jumping on your allies is counter productive. You want to win this battle then you have to get out there and start winning people to our side one person at a time.
One problem we have is that a great number of us neither bother to vote or are probably not even registered to vote. There should not be a gun show running in America that someone is not there to get people registered to vote. There should be local blogs keeping the local community informed on the issues of the day in addition to RKBA issues.
So I challenge you, goon. Horny Toad and anyone else to the following:
The Get 1 Challenge
1. Get 1 person who has never been to the range to fire a weapon or 1 who hasn't been to the range in years to the range.
2. Sit down and send 1 hand written, hand signed letter to your local Congressman in support of the Second Amendment.
3. Schedule 1 meeting with your local Congressman when they are in town to discuss his position on the Second Amendment.
4. Spend 1 day a month studying your local issues in addition to the issues of the RKBA.
5. Get 1 new voter registered to vote.
6. Work 1 campaign this year so you can learn the process and understand what it takes to get elected to office and what it takes to stay in office. Learn the process. Understand the process.
7. Network.
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