When did the thinking on flashlights change?

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macadore

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In my youth I read that the G Men were trained to hold their handgun in one hand and hold their flashlight in the other as far away from their body as possible. The reasoning was that in the dark an attacker would shoot at the light and miss the agent's body. Somewhere that changed. Can anyone tell me why and when?
 
Because it was found that you have better control of the light AND the gun by gripping them together with both hands. In the old days G-men and police all shot with one hand all the time. Jeff Cooper and Jack Weaver changed all that in the late 50s. As far as the bad guy shooting at the light - he could (probably) be a very lousy shot and miss and hit you while aiming for the light. If someone is shooting at you then you REALLY need to find some cover and get behind it rather than just stand in the open and shoot at him.
 
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Probably when LED flashlights got so small and powerful you can't look them in the eye anymore.

The old dry-cell incandescent bulb Ray-O-Vacs, Mag-Lights, & Kel-Lites used then by police were so feeble you could keep your eyes open and shoot at them.

You can't physically do it against a 150 - 300+ Lumen white light LED TAC-Light anymore.

All you can see when looking at one in the dark is spots before your eyes like a flash bulb went off in your face at 0-dark-thirty.

If you can even stand to keep your eyes open to look at them in the dark at all.

rc
 
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I think it also has to do with the incredible power available in handheld flashlights starting in what..the 90's? Back "in the day" they used flashlights that had as much power as the $0.50 ones at the checkout at the grocery store. It was something you could aim it easily. Nowdays you physically cannot look at the light to aim at it.

ETA:
Dag Nabbit RC...you're like a ninja sometimes. And on top of beating me to it, you said it so much more eloquently than I did.
 
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When I entered LE back in 1979, they were still teaching holding the flashlight in you left hand, up and away from you body.

I'm not sure if it ever occurred to instructors that if someone was shooting at the light and jerked the trigger, that the shot would likely hit the light holder.

When the department changed to the Harries hold (back of hands meeting), sometime in the early 80s, the reason given was a two fold:
1. Officers weren't hold the light forward enough and were illuminating themselves
2. Someone figured out that even the bad guys knew that officers were 8 feet tall

By then there was also the Chapman hold ( which came from the world of competition) and the Ayoob hold...where the hands met facing each other. The Harries, when preformed correctly is quite painful and hard to maintain for any length of time. These all worked with flash lights with switches on their side

The big break through was when Bill Roger came up with the Cigar hold where the light is held between the fingers of the support hand...he used a Surefire P model as this technique required a light with it's switch on the end away from the lens. It really helped when Surefire introduced the Z model with the collar for the fingers to grip
 
As a kid, the cop gun magazines and LE Bibles suggested holding the light up and away from you. 1970's era.

When I went to the academy in 1984, we had a very high speed, low drag instructor (who was one of Jeff Coopers first instructors at Gunsite) and we were using the new and radical technique of holding the gun and light together in front of you.

You hold a full sized Streamlight and a 1911 out in front of you for awhile, you get a dandy forearm workout.
 
White-light tactics; Clint Smith, Massad Ayoob....

Flashlight or the more modern phrase; white-light tactics have evolved greatly in the last 15/20 years.
9-11-2001 had a big part of that change IMO, as FAMs(Air Marshals) & counter-terrorist units became more active.
Reportedly, 80-85% of lethal force events take place in low-light(night). Having a white-light or using flashlight/sidearm tactics is smart.
Top instructors like Massad Ayoob, Clint Smith, Larry Vickers, Jeff Gonzales, John Shaw, Duane Dieter, etc all teach white-light methods & tactics for CQB(close quarter battle).
There are books, DVDs & online videos that can teach you how to properly use a light with your CCW pistol or weapon.
A active FAM designed a special tool to add to Surefire; www.surefire.com flashlights. This ring device helps the shooter angle the bright light while deploying the pistol.

Some gunners & armed professionals dislike the 1913 rail type white lights but I think they have value under limited conditions. As noted, modern systems are now brighter & brighter. I've seen Fenix & Streamlight units that are powerful and compact. I've watched Youtube.com reviews/T&Es where the bright light(s) sweep entire yards or light up dark rooms with ease.
I purchased a new Fenix PD 32 series in 2013. It was powerful but really burned thru Li batteries fast. :mad:
A good tip; use high end Li 123A batteries like Surefire or Streamlight brands(available at Bass Pro Shop or some well run gun shops). I lost my Fenix on a business trip but may get a new PD 35 series white-light. It has a strobe feature & 850lum, ;) .
 
Holding the light as far from you as possible actually originated from the days of lanterns.

The unfocused light lit you up as a target if you kept it too close to your body. The difference between focused and unfocused light sources was lost on the old guard of trainers and thus taught anyway.
 
Clint Smith....

As combat veteran(USMC) & LE trainer Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch says; white lights are meant to be used briefly or in quick bursts. not to sweep around & flash onto subjects. :uhoh:
After a event, you can light up a area & use the light but be selective in how you use it in tactical situations.
 
The way I was taught (in the mid-eighties) actually works well for me at the range. We were taught to hold the light across the upper chest with the off hand in a reverse (overhand) grip, and brace the shooting hand across that arm. I'm left-handed, so the beam comes from just off my left shoulder, and the shot from my line of sight. This hold also allows the flashlight to be already held as an impact weapon should the need to re-holster and block or fight arise.
 
As I recall at one of the last couple NTI's (National Tactical Invitational's) Tom Givens did a hour long lecture on the evolution of the modern flashlight techniques.


I recollect that - as our new friend British Agent pointed out - spotlight lanterns were the light source of choice for a century. And once mankind mastered the battery, and later the battery-powered flashlight, the techniques weren't much different.

First the market introduced the inexpensive, mass-produced Rayovak's; those silver aluminum lights that looked more like a Thermos than a flashlight. Then a major innovation came with the aluminum Maglite's, which were just as effective as batons as they were flashlights.

Neither the early Rayovak's, nor the Maglite's operated easily with the modern methods, as the button used to activate it was on the body of the light, not on the heel of the light.


The modern techniques evolved as the light became easier to operate with a grip other than one that need your thumb activating a switch - push-pull or push button - on the body of the light.


Tom Given's NTI presentation is a worthwhile read for folks who are curious about this generational evolution.

He's a member here. Send him a message and ask him for a copy of the PowerPoint.
 
The way I was taught (in the mid-eighties) actually works well for me at the range. We were taught to hold the light across the upper chest with the off hand in a reverse (overhand) grip, and brace the shooting hand across that arm. I'm left-handed, so the beam comes from just off my left shoulder, and the shot from my line of sight. This hold also allows the flashlight to be already held as an impact weapon should the need to re-holster and block or fight arise.
I'm pretty sure I'm wrong, but the image that first popped into my mind was the shooting style using in the television show, Man from U.N.C.L.E.
 
I was trained the way macadore says. As to a powerful light blinding an opponent, it might if he is 1) close and 2) looking directly at the light. But if he is off to the side, the light and the guy behind it make great targets. Why not point the light at ones own head and holler "shoot me"? Same effect.

So why gun mounted lights? Because some companies peddling rails and lights thought they would look "cool" in the ads and eventually some real(?) cops took up the idea without thinking much about it.

My old instructor didn't think much of flashlights anyway, at least for lighting up the inside of a building. He thought the best thing to do was simply turn on the lights (if you knew where the switch was); both you and the bad guy might be temporarily blinded, but you are expecting it, he is not.

Jim
 
Heck the FBI hold was still being taught when I went through the academy in 2005.

macadore: The biggest advantage is you have two hands on the gun, and you can perform weapons and/or environmental manipulations (opening and closing doors, checking windows are locked, etc.) without having to juggle a light and a gun.

-Jenrick
 
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