Please take 20-30 seconds to help gun owners in California

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Kynoch

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Please take 20-30 seconds to help gun owners in California no matter where you might live.

There are four anti-gun bills sitting on CA Gov. Brown's desk that deserve to be vetoed: SB 808 - Criminalization of home-built firearms; AB 1014 - Creates “Gun Violence Restraining Orders” and “firearm seizure warrants”; AB 1609 - Requires 10-day wait and DROS for imported firearms by dual-residents and SB 199 - Redefines BB guns/imitation firearms and adds new manufacturing requirements.

Gov. Brown definitely showed that he's willing to veto potentially unlawful or harmful gun control laws when he vetoed AB 169, AB 180, SB 299, SB 374, SB 475, SB 567 and SB 755 on October 11, 2013.

Please take 20-30 seconds to ask Gov. Brown to veto these bills using this resource: https://www.firearmspolicy.org/act/california/governor-brown-veto-gun-control/

Thanks very much.
 
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Gov moonbeam? really? all I can do is pray for our citizens in kali.
 
Twiki357 said:
Done. Used my old CA info. :D Unfortunately, he will do wjhat ever he feels like doing reguardless of the will of Californians. :fire:
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Thanks, I appreciate it very much. There's actually some brains/heart to the political animal that is Gov. Brown so there is always hope as evidenced by his seven vetos on October 11 of last year.

At least one of the bills -- AB 1014, would create another legal headache for the state...
 
lxd55 said:
Gov moonbeam? really? all I can do is pray for our citizens in kali.
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Actually there's a lot more you can do than just pray.

Written by me in another thread.

"We don't fight this fight alone, many states are right there along with us. The victories we've shared should keep all 2nd Amendment advocates mindful that No State is a lost cause. It saddens me to hear fellow members of the firearms community denigrate My State and give it up for dead.
These wins just go to show that our fight never was and never will be truly lost.
In fact we may see other unjust laws repealed because of our victories.

I emplore members of other states to write California representatives letting them know you do not support any laws that suppress our 2nd Amendment rights, that you will not be visiting or spending any money that would go to our state and that you will happily visit when such laws have been repealed.

Also please give to organizations such as The Cal Guns Foundation even if you're not a resident of California. Our laws may seem local, but I assure you they have a National impact.

Help us fight the war here before you have to fight it on your own front."
 
Field Tester said:
Actually there's a lot more you can do than just pray.

Written by me in another thread.

"We don't fight this fight alone, many states are right there along with us. The victories we've shared should keep all 2nd Amendment advocates mindful that No State is a lost cause. It saddens me to hear fellow members of the firearms community denigrate My State and give it up for dead.
These wins just go to show that our fight never was and never will be truly lost.
In fact we may see other unjust laws repealed because of our victories.

I emplore members of other states to write California representatives letting them know you do not support any laws that suppress our 2nd Amendment rights, that you will not be visiting or spending any money that would go to our state and that you will happily visit when such laws have been repealed.

Also please give to organizations such as The Cal Guns Foundation even if you're not a resident of California. Our laws may seem local, but I assure you they have a National impact.

Help us fight the war here before you have to fight it on your own front."
Click to expand...

Excellent posting, thank you.
 
Done, good luck. Don't ever give up the fight. No matter what anyone says about lost causes, anything is possible and its only lost when we give up.

Fight like you mean it, fight till the end.
 
Done.

As a side note: AB 1609 ticks me off on a personal level. All of these laws annoy me on principle of course, but AB 1609 is more personal than most of the recent CA silliness.

I own houses in Texas and California, and go to California "somewhat frequently" (3 times so far in 2014), and stay in my house. I like California as a place, though I'd like it better with about 30,0000,000 fewer people. The effort it would take me to switch my residency to CA is basically a trip to the DMV and updating some mailing addresses. I wouldn't need to find a new job, or move, or much of anything. I could decide to do so today and be a resident (with utility bills going back years to prove it) in the time it takes to get a new driver's license.

It would be good for California if I did return. My leaving cost the state thousands of dollars in tax revenue (cumulatively more than $60k in income taxes alone since I left the state, easily more than $100k if you count sales taxes, personal property taxes on vehicles, etc)...tax profit, since I wasn't a significant user of services.

AB1609 makes it even less likely I will ever return as a resident.

And for what?

I already owned guns in CA before I left/I'm in their database so under recent court rulings applying a 10 day waiting period to me is unconstitutional.

The idea of bouncing legal residency so I could import a few off-list handguns is absurd. The year I moved out of CA I had to file a tax return for the 4 days I was legally still a CA resident and that cost me thousands of dollars. Sorry CA gun owners, I am not going to take that tax hit just so I can leave a few non-CA guns on the consignment shelf at a CA gun shop.

I bring guns into CA every time I visit. Non-list (though CA legal) guns. I take those guns home with me when I leave. As a nonresident I don't need to pay the state fees and I can't transfer my guns except through a dealer (which I'm not going to do) anyway. As far as I can tell, AB 1609 doesn't change the legality of what I am doing at all. It just penalizes me if I decide to switch my residency and bring my guns into CA after that point...an "insult to injury" penalty since most of the guns I have purchased since leaving would require at least new magazines and some (e.g. my Buckmark .22lr pistol) are simply not legal under CA law (my Buckmark came from the factory with a threaded barrel).

I'd ask what they were thinking, but it's obvious they weren't. Typical CA gun politics. :(

Oh well, enough venting.
 
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You may think you're winning small victories, but as long as the same idiots keep getting reelected there, you're delusional. Glad I got out.
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As the old saying goes: "you haven't failed until you quit trying". But at some point the battle is lost and a retreat to defensible ground is warranted.
 
As a new resident of California, I was surprised how big recreational shooting is here. I now live in a decent sized metro area and there are more places to shoot and buy guns within a stones throw than there were in all of Vermont or Maine (the other places I've lived).

If shooting is so popular here, why the impossible quagmire of laws? I'm very happy the ammo registration law is dead, but this microstamping nonsense is ridiculous given that 10 minutes with a mild abrasive will remove any microstamp.

What I'm suspecting is that the true motivation behind all of California's laws (not just the gun laws) is to milk as much money as possible out of her residents.
 
Ryanxia said:
Done, good luck. Don't ever give up the fight. No matter what anyone says about lost causes, anything is possible and its only lost when we give up.

Fight like you mean it, fight till the end.
Click to expand...

Thanks much. I really appreciate the effort and the sentiment...
 
Jason_W said:
As a new resident of California, I was surprised how big recreational shooting is here. I now live in a decent sized metro area and there are more places to shoot and buy guns within a stones throw than there were in all of Vermont or Maine (the other places I've lived).

If shooting is so popular here, why the impossible quagmire of laws? I'm very happy the ammo registration law is dead, but this microstamping nonsense is ridiculous given that 10 minutes with a mild abrasive will remove any microstamp.

What I'm suspecting is that the true motivation behind all of California's laws (not just the gun laws) is to milk as much money as possible out of her residents.
Click to expand...

It's all about politics, votes, getting people elected and power...

Up until 1989 California was one of the most pro-gun states in the Union. Then the Cleveland Elementary School shooting happened in Stockton, CA. Politicos were desperate to show scared and outraged citizens that they were "doing something." In result was the truly laughable and hideous Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act of 1989.

While Roberti-Roos hasn't saved any lives, politicos found they could scare people and influence voters with this great new issue -- "gun control" and some politicos like Dianne Feinstein have largely based their careers upon this one issue.
 
wally said:
As the old saying goes: "you haven't failed until you quit trying". But at some point the battle is lost and a retreat to defensible ground is warranted.
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What really has changed in CA with regard to guns since 1989?

* Fixed list (Roberti-Roos) of firearms (by make/model) that can no longer be imported into CA. LMFAO!

* No mags over 10 rounds. Chuckle.

* Modern sporting rifles must have bullet buttons.

* Must buy .510 DTC in place of .50 BAR chambered firearms. Double chuckle.

* Handgun roster. Most still bought what they wanted using single-shot exemption. The roster's legal future is bleak.

Other than those lamentable matters there hasn't been huge changes in CA since 1989, but there are been huge, ongoing political fights. I think some believe the only legal firearms in CA anymore are smooth bore BP muskets and BB guns and that's simply not the case.
 
Done. Followed Twiki's example and used my old Castro Valley address! :D I hope that is not a mortal sin. :uhoh:

Good luck with Governor Moonbeam. He is quite unpredictable, depending on his current dosage. :what:
 
Kynoch said:
What really has changed in CA with regard to guns since 1989?

* Fixed list (Roberti-Roos) of firearms (by make/model) that can no longer be imported into CA. LMFAO!

* No mags over 10 rounds. Chuckle.

* Modern sporting rifles must have bullet buttons.

* Must buy .510 DTC in place of .50 BAR chambered firearms. Double chuckle.

* Handgun roster. Most still bought what they wanted using single-shot exemption. The roster's legal future is bleak.

Other than those lamentable matters there hasn't been huge changes in CA since 1989, but there are been huge, ongoing political fights. I think some believe the only legal firearms in CA anymore are smooth bore BP muskets and BB guns and that's simply not the case.
Click to expand...


Since 1989:

You lost threaded barrels on pistols. Yep, it's a felony to bring in a Walther P22 as sold in 49 other states (they smeared glue on the threads in CA, making takedown impossible).

You lost Judges and the like. Bring in a S&W Governor, go to jail for years.

You lost semi-auto rifles under 30" (I can't bring in my RFB unless I both bullet button AND extend the gun 4").

You lost the ability to sell a handgun to a friend without going through a dealer, paying heavy fees, and waiting 10 days.

You lost the ability to buy more than one handgun in 30 days.

You lost the ability to buy C&R handguns without physically leaving the state. You can't get C&R long guns shipped without a COE on top of your FFL. Even there, some dealers refuse to sell if your FFL shows a CA address even though it is legal. You may have, under AB 1609, lost C&R guns bought out of state on your own license...not sure but it is possible.

You lost the ability to buy a handgun without showing utility bills and the like.


You lost the ability to own a Yugoslavian SKS.

You lost the ability to import single shot handguns that are not on the approved roster.

You lost all new semi-auto guns from Ruger and S&W...probably others.

You lost the ability to buy airsoft guns that don't have bright orange markings.

What you really lost is a lot of choice. E.g. the handgun roster is specific down to the finish applied. So in TX I can buy a gun in 6 colors, with different configurations...you may get one, in black. You don't get the .22 TCM version though.

You can tell yourself it isn't that bad. I did when I lived there. Live somewhere else for awhile and you will realize that the California rules are really bad.
 
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Ed Ames said:
Since 1989:

You lost threaded barrels on pistols. Yep, it's a felony to bring in a Walther P22 as sold in 49 other states (they smeared glue on the threads in CA, making takedown impossible).

You lost Judges and the like. Bring in a S&W Governor, go to jail for years.

You lost semi-auto rifles under 30" (I can't bring in my RFB unless I both bullet button AND extend the gun 4").

You lost the ability to sell a handgun to a friend without going through a dealer, paying heavy fees, and waiting 10 days.

You lost the ability to buy more than one handgun in 30 days.

You lost the ability to buy C&R handguns without physically leaving the state. You can't get C&R long guns shipped without a COE on top of your FFL. Even there, some dealers refuse to sell if your FFL shows a CA address even though it is legal. You may have, under AB 1609, lost C&R guns bought out of state on your own license...not sure but it is possible.

You lost the ability to buy a handgun without showing utility bills and the like.


You lost the ability to own a Yugoslavian SKS.

You lost the ability to import single shot handguns that are not on the approved roster.

You lost all new semi-auto guns from Ruger and S&W...probably others.

You lost the ability to buy airsoft guns that don't have bright orange markings.

What you really lost is a lot of choice. E.g. the handgun roster is specific down to the finish applied. So in TX I can buy a gun in 6 colors, with different configurations...you may get one, in black. You don't get the .22 TCM version though.

You can tell yourself it isn't that bad. I did when I lived there. Live somewhere else for awhile and you will realize that the California rules are really bad.
Click to expand...

And none of those are going to make me change my life and move from my home. None of them impact me. I don't like them, some are being actively "worked on", but as I said I'm not moving based on these matters.

I guess "bad" is relative -- so is the notion of a "free" (LOL!!) state.
 
Kynoch said:
And none of those are going to make me change my life and move from my home. None of them impact me. I don't like them, some are being actively "worked on", but as I said I'm not moving based on these matters.

I guess "bad" is relative -- so is the notion of a "free" (LOL!!) state.
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You're right, but there are plenty of other great reasons to leave CA and not look back.
 
It's easy to say 'pack up and move!' but personally, if it were me, in my home, I would stay and fight tooth and nail to fix the laws. This isn't some foreign land, this is our home, running away is not an option.
We have to do our best to defend against this attack on our Rights through any legal means. If that fails, as the saying goes, 'when tyranny becomes law, resistance becomes duty'.
I personally like the slogan 'D.R.E.S. for the occasion: Defy Resist Evade Smuggle' :) (Of course that in no way implies breaking the law, that's just a saying.)
 
Kynoch said:
And none of those are going to make me change my life and move from my home. None of them impact me. I don't like them, some are being actively "worked on", but as I said I'm not moving based on these matters.

I guess "bad" is relative -- so is the notion of a "free" (LOL!!) state.
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Yep.

Imagine you have lunch with an old school friend and he or she says this: "Sure Joe hits me, but I'm not going to change my life and move from my home because of a few bruises! Bruises don't really stop me from doing anything. I don't like being hit but Joe is getting better about not punching me where it shows so I'm not even embarrassed as often any more. I'm not leaving just because of a little hitting!

"I guess 'abusive' is relative -- so is the notion of a 'safe' (LOL!!) home."

What is your reaction?

"Gee, I guess my concerns about Joe were misplaced. I should ask if they have a spare bedroom because that sounds like a situation I'd like to be closer to."

"Umm...okay...that doesn't sound good but my friend seems OK with it so it's none of my business. If Joe is attractive enough I'd do the same thing."

"Sounds like Joe is abusive and my friend is in denial. How sad. Isn't that called Stockholm Syndrome? Why isn't it called Hearst's Syndrome? That would sound so much cooler. I wonder if Patty and Selma on the Simpsons are named after Hearst and the Selma Riots they did in the south? What's on TV?"

"Well so much for that quote-unquote friend. Where can I find people to socialize with who aren't mentally ill?"

"My friend is trapped in an obviously abusive relationship! A victim being apparently OK with abuse doesn't make it OK, and nobody should be violated that way! I am morally obligated to try and get my friend out of that relationship, even if my friend thinks everything is fine and an occasional beating is normal. How do I get the police or SOMEONE involved to stop this!? Joe should be in jail, at minimum."

Personally I'm torn. The whole reason the US is a constitutional republic instead of a democracy is the idea that some things are not OK even if the victims agree to it, but shouldn't people have a right to be idiots?
 
Ed Ames - In an abusive relationship an outsider can always call the Police for help. In the fight for our Rights there's no one we can call, it's up to us. With that in mind, if there was no one to call and it was up to me to stop 'Joe' a spare bedroom might be just the ticket.
Either that or buy a shovel. :)
 
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