tell me about the 25 auto cartridge?

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It's the big old rim on the .22 LR that makes it so unreliable in a stick-mag fed autoloader.
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Most people say the .25 is more reliable than a .22 due to the centerfire design than anything else. Rimfire ammo just isn't the most reliable stuff going and it's a big reason I would never choose a .22 for SD when I can get calibers from a .380 to a .44 mag just by opening my safe door. I don't own small .22 pistols but the .22 autos I have shot and borrowed for a while from friends have all been reliable. They're just as reliable as the ammo is anyway. If I did want to use a .22 of any kind for SD I think I'd get a revolver. I've thought about getting one for my wife even though I don't like the idea of using a .22 for SD. If that's the biggest caliber gun she can handle that's also small enough to carry in a purse then it may be the best choice for her. I got her the .380 but it's hard for her to hang on to due to it's small size and the recoil of it. She doesn't have strong hands but don't tell her I said that. :) A .22 revolver can work pretty well. I've seen very good examples of small revolvers in fact. The Ruger LCR is a good choice IMO. I'd pick that over giving her my Raven .25 to carry. I wouldn't even consider that. And my P-25 was made in the original factory before it burned down (the old factory made much better pistols).
 
I wouldn't compare any Zamak based firearm with anything but another one. While they can be reliable, and accurate, they will also be larger and heavier.

Compare the LCR, if you must, to something like the Beretta Model 950FS, in .25 ACP.

The idea of using a .22 for self-defense hinges on the ammunition. The rim makes semi-auto feeding in the smallest guns problematical, and the priming compound in those rims is also a steady issue for reliability. Especially now that rim-fire ammo is so hard to come by. I managed to score three 525 packs of Federal recently, and the rate of failure is much larger than it used to be. Almost all of the rounds will fire if you turn them 180 degrees for a second try. However, I don't find that at all comforting in a SD scenario.
 
Maybe it would be but every gun I ever saw that used that round was just plain junk including the Berettas.
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My 23 year old Bobcat is anything but junk in fact I rate it as one of the higher quality weapons in my collection. Oh and nine rounds center mass would make you very dead.

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greyeyezz said:
My 23 year old Bobcat is anything but junk in fact I rate it as one of the higher quality weapons in my collection. Oh and nine rounds center mass would make you very dead.
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Sweet! :what:

Now I'm all nostalgic and missing my old .25's which I had years ago. Thanks for posting the pix of the Beretta - I had one many years ago and it was not only uber reliable but a tack diver in rapid fire to boot.

I miss that Old Girl...

VooDoo
 
Posted by greyeyezz: Oh and nine rounds center mass would make you very dead.
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Of course, the objective of lawful defensive weapons and tactics is to keep the defender safe, and the lethality of the weapon has no direct importance whatsoever.
 
I used to carry one. Sold it for an NAA mini and never looked back. Price of .25 ammo vs .22 ammo for what is pretty much the same in power. I like revolvers better as well.
 
I have a couple NAA revolvers as well. And, I can shoot them fast, or fairly accurately. But not both at the same time.

Actually, I can empty one in right at a second. I'm not going to say how, its stupid and dangerous but, it does work but, it requires two hands.

The little .25 autos are actually shootable. Under stress, one handed, I would not do well with a little NAA as they come with the little birds head grip. I actually got a set of the bigger wooden grips on mine and it increased its usability.
 
That is a sweet little Colt. Wish I had one! I did pick up a pristine, (probably never fired), Baby Browning copy, Bauer .25 ACP for nostalgic reasons. Couldn't resist.:cool: It makes my 'little' .380 PPK/S look like something Dirty Harry would choose. It will never be my first choice for a carry piece, but, 6 shots in a bad guy's neck... well... he'd be busy trying to plug the leaks, so although it's not a very useful gun, it's certainly not a useless gun.
 

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Posted by BLU: It will never be my first choice for a carry piece, but, 6 shots in a bad guy's neck...
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I would not expect to put one shot "in a bad guy's neck", and that's with my 9MM carry piece with a four inch barrel, a full grip, a fiber optic front sight, and no safety to disengage.

The problems with the Colt and Baby Browning extend well beyond the anemic cartridge. To draw, disengage the safety, and shoot effectively at a rapidly moving violent criminal actor before he has done you in seem to present virtually insurmountable problems.
 
The benefit of being an old geezer...

Once upon a time, in a galaxy far, far away, in the 1980's... :cool:

American Derringer Corp. came out with a nifty .250-Magnum pistol :evil:
You won't find much info of that little beastie on the net...pre-net item
and its rare as hen's teeth...fewer than a hundred made, and fewer actually sold...

Bob Saunders used a lengthened .25 auto case (.090 longer) to create his .250 Magnum...
which had the power of a .380, cogitate upon that if you will...:what:
 
Kleenbore... Everyone seems to have their own scenario of how they may need their carry firearm. For me, I envision any confrontation I would be engaged in to be up close and personal. Anything beyond 7 yards and I'm going to engage my Nike's if at all possible! I'm no longer paid to uphold law and order so if I can run away versus having a shoot-out, that's my plan! Standing ground at home is another matter and that firearm WILL drop 'em graveyard dead on the spot... and no, it's not a .25 ACP handgun. It's not even a handgun!
 
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I suppose for the guy who owns only one gun the .25 ACP is not a good choice. Many of us own many guns, many of which we do not own for self defense or target shooting.

The point is this, if you like a cuddly little handgun for your own reasons, just for the joy of looking at it, or collecting them, you have your own reasons and don't need anyone else's opinions. But since the OP asked I assume the gun is for self defense, and that's probably not a real good reason to own a .25 ACP.

I have a small collection of high quality .25's, and I love them, and enjoy loading them hot! My favorite shooter is the Astra Cub, but have many others.

For self defense I carry a plastic throw away .380, but if I knew I would get into a fight I'd carry my DW 10MM and several extra magazines, because the .380 is also not a good stopper.

But 95% of my handguns are not owned for self defense, so endless talk about stopping power is wasted.
 
kleanbore said:
I would not expect to put one shot "in a bad guy's neck", and that's with my 9MM carry piece with a four inch barrel, a full grip, a fiber optic front sight, and no safety to disengage.

The problems with the Colt and Baby Browning extend well beyond the anemic cartridge. To draw, disengage the safety, and shoot effectively at a rapidly moving violent criminal actor before he has done you in seem to present virtually insurmountable problems.
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If you're trying to draw a .25 to stop a criminal you're doing it wrong. Situational awareness is your friend. A small gun concealed in your hand, safety off, then repeatedly fired into the criminal's face, neck or gut at point blank range is much preferable to fist fighting or trying to draw your 9mm four-inch barreled carry piece when the criminal is within arms length.

No sense in trying to make everything a wild-west fast draw contest.
 
Just for reference, last Saturday I helped my club do their yearly indoor range spruce-up.

I pulled down the strapping that holds up the rubber curtain over the back stop and disassembled it.

I found a .25 ACP FMJ slug that had been fired at less than 20 yards, which had penetrated all the way through ONE piece of 3/4" thick spruce strapping, and stuck in the face of the second piece.

I imagine it would have penetrated skin at that distance. I don't see any need to use one, though. Every benefit of a .25 ACP handgun, at this point in time, can be filled by something more effective.
 
Posted by BLU: Kleenbore... Everyone seems to have their own scenario of how they may need their carry firearm. For me, I envision any confrontation I would be engaged in to be up close and personal. Anything beyond 7 yards ...
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Yeah, to the extent that one can rely upon the old Tueller exercise, a person with a blade does not present an imminent threat unless he is fairly close.

And if he does charge, he will be a lot closer before you can shoot.

...and I'm going to engage my Nike's if at all possible! I'm no longer paid to uphold law and order so if I can run away versus having a shoot-out, that's my plan!
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Where I live, I have a duty to retreat if it is safely possible to do so. The problem, I now have little ability.

Standing ground at home is another matter and that firearm WILL drop 'em graveyard dead on the spot... and no, it's not a .25 ACP handgun. It's not even a handgun!
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Of course, that does not make the killing of an intruder your proper objective.
 
Just my 2% of a buck...

Not all defensive uses of a gun involve a gun fight.

A tiny .25 or .22 isn't something that we'd take to a gunfight. In pretty much the same class as a J-Frame snub nosed .38 revolver.

A more personal defensive arm. A belly gun. A gun that you press against an attacker's belly and fire repeatedly or until he falls down or runs away...and then una....er...exit the AO with all due haste.

For instance...

A little .25 Auto or a 5-shot .38 Special could have brought about a much different outcome in that parking lot beatdown last week. At the very least, it could have made the odds a little more even. Think Bernard Goetz.

Or, in another type of scenario...such a pistol in a lady's purse or pocket...should she be forced into a car for the evening's "entertainment"would provide an extra little somethin' for the abductor when he gets her isolated and reaches for his prize.

Holly Bobo...and closer to home...Anna Smith come to mind. Several fatal and near-fatal attacks in recent memory have caused me to mutter: "A little .25 automatic or Airweight J-Frame could have made all the difference there."
 
Posted by 45_auto: If you're trying to draw a .25 to stop a criminal you're doing it wrong.
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If you are carrying your firearm concealed, you are going to have to draw it to use it.

Situational awareness is your friend. A small gun concealed in your hand, safety off, ....
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Maybe you could drew it surreptitiously under some circumstances, and maybe you could keep it concealed, but that would tie up your hand.

And should a person you suspect wrongly see you palm the gun, it might be he who ends up presenting a defense of justification.

...then repeatedly fired into the criminal's face, neck or gut at point blank range is much preferable to fist fighting or trying to draw your 9mm four-inch barreled carry piece when the criminal is within arms length.
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Yes, you do want to keep some distance if you can, but I would much rather shoot center mass from a retention position with an effective weapon than try sticking my arm out and trying to shoot repeatedly into the face or neck of a rapidly charging assailant.

With a .25 ACP, I would forget the gut.

And if he were to get close enough, I would stand a better chance of parrying the knife arm and stopping the assailant with a stick than trying to stop him by hitting a small fast moving target with an ineffective firearm that is difficult to handle.

In fact, depending upon how quickly the ambush unfolds, that stick, which is already in hand and ready, might be the only viable initial defense.
 
Posted by 1911Tuner: A little .25 Auto or a 5-shot .38 Special could have brought about a much different outcome in that parking lot beatdown last week. At the very least, it could have made the odds a little more even..... Think Bernard Goetz.

Or, in another type of scenario...such a pistol in a lady's purse or pocket...should she be forced into a car for the evening's "entertainment"would provide an extra little somethin' for the abductor when he gets her isolated and reaches for his prize.

Holly Bobo...and closer to home...Anna Smith come to mind. Several fatal and near-fatal attacks in recent memory have caused me to mutter: "A little .25 automatic or Airweight J-Frame could have made all the difference there."
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Absolutely!

Given the choice, I'll take the .38.

And it's not just for the lady's purse. A snubbie in your pocket could save the day. I like one in a weak hand vest pocket when I am driving. But it is not my choice for primary carry.
 
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