Media notices Civil Rights issue with 4473
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NoVA Shooter
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Search algorithms used in criminal/background investigations are very heuristic. They take into account transposed dates (DOB 5/21/1968 vice 5/12/1968 or 5/21/1986) and nicknames/aliases/similar spellings (John Smith vice J Smith or Johnny Smith). Any extra information will help reduce false positives. If John Smith born 5/21/1968 is being searched, the system may return an arrest warrant for J Smithy born 5/21/1986. Race, POB or something else may be enough to rule out an alias or transposed year of birth.
Again, it still should be optional.
Funny you say that as that particular issue has hit me particularly hard. I was denied a purchase, and ,through research, was able to find out that someone else with the exact same fist, middle, and last name as me, was born on the same day, and that his social security number is the same as mine, except that two of the first three number are transposed, is a convicted rapist serving time in an Ohio prison, or I guess now could possibly paroled. OPM didn't make this mistake during either of my two security clearance background checks but NICS sure made the mistake and denied me. It was corrected fairly easily through an appeal but still was an unnecessary pain to correct.
BTW race or ethnicity would not have helped any in that situation.
And again I just thought I would post this as I have heard several on this board complain in the past about those sections. To me the whole form is a violation of our rights but, then agian, I usually get bashed for my opinion on this matter here so I will just leave it at that so as not to derail the thread.
Nico Testosteros
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It's just Fox News and some Repubs trying to embarrass the current administration.
LOL! No doubt.
In Illinois it's pointless anyway. When we call in a background check we enter FOID#, date of birth, and punch a digit for long gun, or handgun. Done and done.
Do they even ask for race or ethnicity when you submit a background check in any other state?
Unless / until that FFL goes out of business and submits records to the ATF, or gets one of those "we're photocopying all of your records audits" I've heard the ATF doing, they never even SEE the 4473, or the answers on it.
dogtown tom
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Yes, it's required information on an FBI NICS background check.
While an Illinois dealer may not have to enter that information when doing an Illinois check, that information is most likely already on file at your state point of contact.
ForumSurfer
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Personally, I think it was just easier for them to add in a new database field somewhere out there than to modify existing field options. It does loook a wee bit silly at first glance.
dogtown tom
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Nothing was added.
Prior to April 2012, Question 10 was "Race and Ethnicity"
It gave the transferee/buyer these options:
American Indian or Alaska Native
Asian
Black or African American
Hispanic or Latino
Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific islander
White
The majority of Hispanic buyers would only check "Hispanic or Latino".........which IS an ethnicity, but not a racial group as recognized by the US government. This was an incomplete answer, as a person cannot be only Hispanic. Why ATF and the rest of the Federal government waited until 2012 to update the 4473 and census forms may best be explained by the link below.
If you've ever travelled to the Caribbean, Central or South America you learn pretty quick that there are multiple races that have amazingly learned to speak and even write Spanish.
Here is a quick and dirty guide to how this question came to be on US Census forms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States_Census
theotherwaldo
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-You also need to know how the government defines each "race". For example, I may be considered to be "latino", since my mother's foster-father was an Italian. No blood relation, but mother was raised in a latino household, so... .
Owen
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That's because just about any race can be hispanic
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Vern Humphrey
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The reason for race was to assist in identifying bodies -- if you have several bodies blown apart and you know race, it helps in sorting out the pieces.
The reason for religion was so you would receive the appropriate last rites.
dogtown tom
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Vern Humphrey
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I've been down this route. My son-in-law's mother is Puerto Rican, but his father was as Irish as Paddy's pig.
A couple of his brothers got special grants in college by classifying themselves as Hispanic. You can legally call yourself Hispanic if: 1) You have family origins in a Spanish-speaking country, 2) If you have a Hispanic surname, 3) if female and you are married to a Hispanic.
A couple of his brothers got special grants in college by classifying themselves as Hispanic. You can legally call yourself Hispanic if: 1) You have family origins in a Spanish-speaking country, 2) If you have a Hispanic surname, 3) if female and you are married to a Hispanic.
dogtown tom
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Not entirely true.
Simply having a Hispanic sounding surname doesn't make you Hispanic any more than rapper R Kelly being able to claim he's Irish.
Anyone who is female and not Hispanic......and claims to be Hispanic in order to get a college grant is committing fraud. Being married to someone from another ethnic group doesn't change YOUR ethnic group.
Vern Humphrey
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It does as far as the government is concerned.
According to the law, a woman married to a Hispanic man may claim to be Hispanic.
dogtown tom
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Care to provide a citation or any link from "the government" that says as much?
Again, please provide a citation to that law.
Note that the link I provided to the ATF disagrees completely.
Vern Humphrey
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dogtown tom
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Sorry, that's not anywhere close to being a citation from a government source.
And that "article" is seriously lacking in facts.
You stated that it was "the government" that considered her Hispanic.....I asked for a citation. Instead you post an article that doesn't address either of your claims.
And yes, I already provided a link to a government document that disagrees. It's a couple of posts up.
Your claims:
1.You can become "Hispanic" by marrying a Hispanic.
2. Having a Hispanic sounding surname makes you Hispanic.
are both false. No Federal law or regulations says anything of the sort.
Note this definition from ATF:
Note that its say's a PERSONS heritage, not your spouse's heritage, not simply a surname.
Again, please provide a citation in Federal law or regulation that says otherwise.
Why the nitpicking? Because anyone who answers falsely to Question 10.a is committing a Federal crime. Your assertion that someone can become Hispanic simply by marrying a Hispanic is clearly contrary to ATF's definition of Ethnicity.
Arizona_Mike
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Generally I don't like to fill that kind of info out by my assumption has been that for Form 4473 it is for identification purposes.
Mike
Mike
Arizona_Mike
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Hispanic is considered a cultural background and not a race. Many Spanish would identify as "White".
Government agencies are split down the middle as to whether someone of Portuguese (and by extension Brazilian) is Hispanic.
When the term Hispanic came into being in the mid 20th Century most dictionaries included them (as Portugal is part of historic Hispania). Currently the opinion of various government agencies is as follows:
YES, Portuguese are Hispanic:
Department of Transportation
Small Business Administration
NO, Portuguese are not Hispanic:
Census Bureau
Office of Management and Budget
Mike
Government agencies are split down the middle as to whether someone of Portuguese (and by extension Brazilian) is Hispanic.
When the term Hispanic came into being in the mid 20th Century most dictionaries included them (as Portugal is part of historic Hispania). Currently the opinion of various government agencies is as follows:
YES, Portuguese are Hispanic:
Department of Transportation
Small Business Administration
NO, Portuguese are not Hispanic:
Census Bureau
Office of Management and Budget
Mike
Hurryin' Hoosier
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Oh, no! That's not fair! Next they'll want to know your height, weight and age! That's discrimination against us short, fat, old guys!
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Hurryin' Hoosier
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I was under the impression that "Hispanic" refers to someone of Spanish derivation, including natives of former Spanish colonies. "Latino" can refer to anyone whose primary ancestry is from any Latin-language country (including Spain, Portugal, Italy, France, etc.) and their former colonies (not counting Italy who couldn't hold onto any colonies long enough to make any lasting impact.
)
CapnMac
Member
This makes me miss my old neighbor Dolf, who would always check the "African-American" box after he gained citizenship. Since Dolf had been born in a suburb of Salisbury, Rhodesia, he did have a point. (Even if it was better to not let him get too much gin aboard and start telling tales of having been in the Scouts, just with way too much Afrikaans mixed in.)
But, more to the point, which part of either ethnicity or race is significant in "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"?
But, more to the point, which part of either ethnicity or race is significant in "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"?
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