Can someone help out a writer who's clueless about guns?

I understand that you say that you're not a fan of research, but I can think of no better or fun "research" than a few hours of range time.

jp68112 said:

Yes, research is a necessary evil. I love to learn, you have to love that to be a writer because you're writing about your observations of the world around you. But research always feels like something that is stopping me from doing the fun part, the writing. Because right now all I want to do is write this story while the spark is still in me, but I can't because I don't know about guns. Still, I'm just going to write the story first (maybe just the chapters that don't involve much gun use), and then research because I don't want that enthusiasm to go away without having written anything. Right now I'm in the "oh my god I HAVE to write this story" phase, but that doesn't last forever. I can write during the "I'm not excited about this anymore" phase, but I have to write while it still feels fresh and exciting, even if it means butchering gun scenes along the way.

This gun thing does make me nervous. I have a completed ya fantasy and I made up a magic system. That's the best because you can't get it wrong so long as you don't break your own rules, but they're rules you get to make up. I did a ton of medieval research though. Us writers google the strangest things...

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There's definitely some truth to this. One problem all writers face is that they can't possibly be experts in all the different fields necessary to writing a novel, which will by necessity touch on a lot of different details, from geography, language, medicine, firearms, politics, etc., while if they are lucky, millions of readers, many of whom will know more than the author on one particular subject addressed in the author's book, will have a chance to tear him or her apart over it.

There is a series of books for writers, which escapes me now, but each is a brief overview of a subject for writers, like violence and pathology, police procedure, etc. I would recommend you try to find some of those.

I think I read every Louis L'Amour book written when I was younger because his stories pulled you in to the everyday life of the characters involved. I once read that if Louis described a scene in a real place you could go there and see every detail involved in the story. The place was real, the story was not. I believe that concept is required to get folks to purchase novels on a continuing basis. So, in my opinion, if you want to be a successful writer you are going to have to learn to like research......

I would agree that Glocks would probably remain prolific in the future. Anyone else here play "Fallout?" I started with the 3rd game, but apparently as far back as the first one the developers felt that the Glock brand would last a long time: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Plasma_pistol_(Fallout)

The cop's rules of engagement would dictate the firearm used more than anything else, in my opinion. If the role of the enforcer is simply to capture people to be delivered elsewhere, what are they expected to do if someone resists?

If it is to carry out the sentence on the spot, go big - if their job is to kill people than pistols are a last resort. They would use a rifle to be as humane and efficient as possible. Basically the same role as military forces today.

If their job is to detain, their R&D should have developed a more modern version of the taser or other non-lethal weapons.

The problem with arming them as you would a modern police department is this - the policeman's job is to detain folks who may or may not be considered innocent later. The firearm's role for a policeman is primarily for self-defense. The majority of arrests are carried out without the firearm being drawn, and the detainee simply respects the policeman's authority.

With someone who will be killed if they are caught, resistance is almost guaranteed. The officer will be told to 1.) kill or 2.) capture humanely.

In an organized military or police organization, pistols are a last-ditch defensive weapon. They are not effective enough to be a primary weapon except where it has to be concealed.

Keep it simple. "She aimed the gun at... and fired." is better than "She aimed the Smyth and Western .99 calibre Model 2345 automatic revolver rifle, pulled back the clicker thingy and pushed the doohickey to shoot a massive 500 pound bullit at the bad guy." The latter may sound like you know guns, but it is nonsense and just sounds dumb to people who do know.

Jim

Keep it simple, yes: Few people will suggest you write like Dan Brown (link).

But good writing requires a lot of knowledge that never makes it (conspicuously) onto the page. If a firearm is a major tool of the protagonist, how it works or doesn't is going to influence the broader story. The decisions she and her command structure make will be very different if she's going to run dry after 10 shots versus having one of those magical handheld death machines action movies keep educating the public about, for example.

With someone who will be killed if they are caught, resistance is almost guaranteed

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A huge majority of the Jews and others whose existence offended the Germans might dispute that. Except they didn't dispute anything, did they?

Well, somebody has to say it:

Phased Plasma rifle in 40 mega-watt range.

Incidentally, kudos to the OP for seeking out info on the subject. Better than being like Ian Fleming (now tell me, please, some of y'all have read the original James Bond books!) and having a guy approach you after the fact to give you pointers. Still, I love those old books and one day I'd love to see what a 100% adaptation of them would look like on the silver screen. Beretta .25 with taped grips and a filed firing pin and all....

Larry Corriea's Abomination is the one I want to see / play with.

OP, there are several published authors on this forum, including Larry Correia, Mike Kupari & Massad Ayoob, along with a couple of others who use screen names.
Larry & Mike kicked off their writing a chapter at a time on this forum. Larry now makes a living from writing. Mike does it when he isn't blowing things up.
As long as you are not going to show our community in a disreputable manner, you can expect to receive good advice on our area of interest on a continuing basis.

I'm a little late here but I would think the team members of the Population Control Unit (PCU) would be pretty highly trained. At least in woods skills, street skills, and hand to hand combat. I tend to think most would put up the fight of their lives if they saw the PCU coming.

First, welcome to the high road. I hope you'll stick around after your novel is finished.

Just curious, is this for NaNoWriMo? Only asking because of the timing of the post.

Anyways.... I think when giving a gun to a character in a book, and deciding on how much training that person has, you have to look at who they are. I'm a big fan of sitting down with a legal pad, and writing an interview with the character. This teenager, is she a hard charger with ambition, or is she just in it for a paycheck until she can get a real job? True believer, or just desperate for a roof over her head? The only 2 reasons why you would give her a specific weapon is to either show the reader something about her, or because, you like guns, and that's part of the fun in writing.

Another consideration is, how does the job work? What kind of people is she going after. If all she is doing is abduction the old, sick, homeless and injured, sort of a "dystopian garbage man" then she may be well equipped and well trained, but doesn't have to be. If the people being arrested are dangerous, and she is much more like a law man than someone doing pest control, that's a whole different ball game, and even then, you have to decide how she goes about getting the job done: hunting her prey, conning the mark, using brute force or cloak and dagger trickery... Sit down with a pen, some paper, and a cold one, and let the character tell you what she wants to carry.

Another option is to just go on google and do an image search for guns, and scroll through until you see one that makes you say "yes, that's it! That's exactly what she would carry!"

Sam1911 had an excellent list going.

He left out an item that is a good one for character development.

Which is that carrying arms every day is a pain. If concealed, you clothe yourself "from the gun out." If carried openly, you "dress to the gun." This is doubly true if any sort of body armor is worn as well (and no matter the climate, the carrier for the armor and/or the armor, develop a "funk" which near-nigh defies description. (It's not uncommon here in the long summer heat of the South for officers to stash their armor in the freezer on days off to try and control the funk.)

That 'simple' "Same Browne' belt LEO carry collects every needful, useful, or prescribed item required by the LEO's agency. Side arm & holster, radio, cuffs, glove case, baton, taser, one of the sprays--the list goes on. This is hitched to the back of the trousers belt by a couple of "keepers"--the rest of the weight gets carried by the hips (more or less, depending upon the hips & body shape).

This also means that unhitching one's bat-belt means the entire load then tries to yank your trousers off by those keepers in the back (unless one has a rig like King Co., Washington, which has suspenders in a "Y" configuration).

Given that we are postulating a resource-depleted world, humans will have become shorter and slighter. This will make weight of gear and important issue. It would suggest, too, smaller-caliber weapons for the "official" personnel.

If you don't mind an idea used by the bunch writing for Baen, there's a handy artifice for describing antagonist versus protagonist weapons--use imperial dimensions for one, and metric dimensions for the other. So one side might use a "5mm" and the other a ".20 caliber"--same dimension, but the reader gets an immediate us/them distinction, even if the dimensions are meaningless to the reader.

Alot of good advice but very overwhelming for a non-gun-guy, I am sure. I am trying to write this without too much technical jargon.

My advice:

-If these people are to capture other people who know if they get captured then they will die, make their gear and training similar to SWAT teams, not an average traffic cop. So research "SWAT gear and tactics".

-Pick one type of gun and research it. I recommend a Glock for a pistol because it is so popular and recognized and will probably be ageless. Do not get bogged down in details about every gun ever existed. You're not a gun guy so keep it basic. You can always ask as you go.

-Make sure it is accurate info... or at least believable. I am reading a novel supposedly authored by an ex-military operative, and every character uses a Glock (most police/agents/law enforcement do use Glocks) and he keeps writing that the agents put the safety on and off. Glocks don't have safeties (except for rare models or custom pistols, of which these aren't).

Basics of a Glock for general novel purposes:

1. Glocks come in multiple popular calibers. I'd say for a novel, you can't go wrong with 9mm since everyone knows it and it is used by military and police. Wikipedia will give you anything you need to know on most calibers. Check the Glock website for more details on more models.
2. Glocks don't have traditional safeties that keep it from going off like "older" guns. You can't write "She dissengaged the safety from her Glock and fired at her enemy".
3. Glocks don't have hammers on the back. They are "striker fired" so you can't see anthing move on the outside when you pull the trigger. So you can't write "Her pistol's hammer got caught on her sweater when she tried to pull out her Glock".
4. Glocks have a polymer (plastic) grip area. The slide, or top part, is metal. So don't write that she "beat someones head in with the metal grip".
5. Glocks use "magazines" for bullets and not "clips". This isn't a big deal for most readers but gun fans...
6. Glocks can be fitted with a suppresor (not a "silencer", but again, most readers wont care) if it has a special barrel that as threads on the tip.
7. Glocks are "semi auto" so everytime you pull the trigger, one bullet comes out. You have to pull the trigger again to send another out (unless its a Call of Duty video game haha). So don't write "She held down the trigger of her Glock and emptied the magazine of bullets".

General gun things:

-Caliber is the measure of the thickness of the bullet. It can be in inches (.45 is 0.45 inches thick, etc) or millimeters (9mm is 9 millimeters thick). So 9mm is smaller than .40 and .45.
-There are multiple calibers of the same size, but they are different "rounds". .45 that most people talk about is .45 ACP. It is different than .45 Colt or .45 GAP. 9mm that is popular is the 9x19mm Parabellum (same as 9mm Luger) but is different than 9mm makarov (9x18mm). So just make sure you aren't mixing guns calibers up. If you use basic popular guns, you will be fine.


Edit: And I wouldn't worry about exact details on all the gear. Just say "she pulled her gun out of her holster" instead of "She disengaged the safety latch on her SafariLand T1000 holster which is made of Kydex, thus releasing her Dan Wesson customized .45 ACP 1911 with Trijicon Night Sights and an extended beaver tail." See any book by James Wesley Rawles if you want to be bored about reading every detail of every one of the gadgets he uses in his book. Its like reading from a catalogue. But you're a writer so I am sure I am preaching to the choir.

my characters could just point a gun at a person and detain them. Done.

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Real life isn't like an old detective movie: People don't all just simmer down when a firearm is introduced. Some do, but there's not a whole lot of predicting.

And then there's the fact that a detained enemy is a real pile of potential trouble. A few months ago I was in a fancy restaurant with some folks, including a Marine who was on Roi-Namur, Saipan, Tinian, and Okinawa. We got to enthusiastically talking about the realities of the fight, from trophy taking to, yes, summarily executing some of the rare surrendering Japanese when the situation didn't allow for tying up half the squad watching them. (It was really entertaining to watch the chain-store exec at the table with us as we had this long conversation.)

all it would seem to take is someone to fire a gun the end

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Getting shot isn't all that consistent, either. Some folks will die on the spot, but others have a whole lot of fight (or flight) left in them, though their time on the run is not going to be exactly pleasant.

My point is that these realities are unpredictable enough to help make your plot equally unpredictable - and interesting.

An extra tidbit: In SERE school (standing for Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape), military personnel are taught that the most dangerous moment is when they are first captured.

Because a breathing, walking enemy in their midst is a huge danger in the field, the capturing force would much rather leave you where you lie. So you'll be subjected to a field interrogation to determine if you pose any possible intelligence value - or if you could be even more aggravating than the average detainee.

If you don't show signs of bending here, you will be "killed." And being killed means you've failed the course.

Broad question. The answer will depend on all kinds of variables, from the circumstances of the call, to city (or county), to the part of town and the number of units available.

As a general rule, LEO's do not enjoy embarking on anything dangerous without backup. Nor should they enjoy it.

Most units in most places roll with a single officer, because budget. So if there are signs of real violence: the first guy on the scene may be running up alone, but he knows that unless he's a pariah, there are lots of other cars trying to get there as fast as they can to have his back. He shouldn't be alone for more than a matter of seconds to a minute in most towns.

A noisy domestic dispute, on the other hand, will often rate only one guy who will likely only call for backup if he is threatened.

But, a noisy domestic dispute is a call that is most likely to get you killed with a knife in the back when they reconcile.
With you between them, back turned on one, trying to separate them!

If a cop ever needs back-up, it seems to me getting between two fighting lovers might be a good time to have one!

Old cop friends always told me 'domestics' were the most dangerous thing you could get into by yourself.

rc

You have a point, RC. And I'm probably out of my depth generalizing from my limited observations. I live in a town of 15,000, and grew up outside a county seat of 8,000. In both, I've seen officers solo when they got called in on domestics.

If I were to ask my acquaintance who's a captain some miles away in a city of a crammed 70,000 people, he might tell me they handle that quite differently.