What would you like to see happen to Colt?

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RustyShackelford said:
The "big mistake" in my view was when Colt & the West Hartford CT plant let the skilled labor force/trained tool workers-machinists/engineers trail off or retire rather than plan for new Colt staff or laborers to replace them.
Colt could have been widely known for the Pythons, D/Det Special .38spl/Anaconda .44/etc as well as the popular 1911a1 .45acp models.
Colt tucked their tail & let the anti-gunners & handgun control crowd scare them off. :mad:

I'm sure many US gun owners would still purchase Colt Pythons or a D series .38spl snub well into the 1990s or early 2000s.
Colt just didn't or wouldn't make the efforts.
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The bigger problem is that Colt (and the 'New Colt' should it occur) needs fewer products, built at low cost for the mass market. That is the only sensible way to compete today.
Low cost means automated construction - multi-axis CAD powered machines that turn out precise parts at very low cost. These types of parts do not required historically skilled gunsmiths to perform assembly. Just ask Glock and others.
And the Pythons and Anaconda's are not suitable for big revenue and big margin. They are costly to produce, require highly skilled labor to assemble, and would be selling in to a market that is increasingly happy to buy products that are 'good enough'. That said, like a Ford GT, Colt resuming the building of a modernized Python would be a great halo product. A low volume high cost product that informs the market that Colt is the place for excellence. But you don't build a halo product before you have something 'to crown'.
So it is a loss of course to see your skilled labor retire without replacement. But a company that depends on a high percentage of skilled labor is likely not in the mass market. And in the gun business, without that focus, they will fail. Again.
B
 
wally said:
I'd like to see happen to Colt as happened to S&W after they got new owners -- new and popular products at competitive prices with great availability and fantastic customer service and support.
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Yep. Exactly. I've been trying to say the same thing but you have done it far more succinctly.
In fact, I just bought my fifth S&W product in the past three years. I've historically been an H&K guy, because I am looking to buy excellent and interesting products. But S&W IS building excellent and interesting products like the M&P semi-auto handguns and AR rifles (excellent) at lower market prices than many of their competitors, the M&P C.O.R.E. and the PC SW1911 (innovative and reasonably priced) while at the same time creating some 'halo' products like the X-Frame and V-COMP revolvers (low volume, high visibility and noteworthy in the gun community. Finally I was happy to be buying products from a U.S. company, with U.S. labor being employed (unlike Springfield's Xd's).
Can a 'New Colt' do the same? At least S&W has shown them a path to success.
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I was thinking about this today. How about Beretta takes them. They would have the cash. They have a history in the firearms business. They are currently moving out of the north east to a friendly area. The product lines are not overlapping. To me they would be the best option I can think of.
 
Colt should hire George Kelgren, and sell his guns or variants of them. Kelgren designs what people want, colt has the facility to make numbers. 2+2=7 though so who knows. Plus it's too late for new products to save them. They decided years ago to walk away from civilians and civilian money walked away mad. No matter how it goes, if Colt cones out at the end making guns then they need new leadership that listens to the ENTIRE market....and I want a 9mm mustang dangit.
 
OldBrownDog said:
Colt is going to survive. For a while.....

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102193094

Which is excellent, because I still have a few things on my my wishlist (ok, maybe more than a few...):evil:
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Wow, this is interesting. To me it sounds like we should wait for another shoe to drop. What does MS know that would lead them to believe that this is a prudent investment, and with such seemingly liberal terms? I suspect that the only thing that they could know is that they have a plan to make the company healthier. Either a roll-up with a few others, or a structuring of the company, it's management and its strategic plan. Thus they would be giving themselves the liberal terms. If this is the IB side of MS, this would be standard practice. But I'm surprised they would take a shot after the Cerberus debacle.
Still, it is life support which beats the alternative.
B
 
Band-Aid....

This seems like a short term(3/4 years) fix to a long term problem for Colt/Colt Defense. :(
It still doesn't say how or what Colt will do with the new Florida location or if they will cater to the growing CCW-concealed user market or "modern sporting rifle" buyers.
The US armed forces or military sales won't be high considering the combat missions in SW Asia are nearly over. Not just for the DoD/US but many other NATO military forces(Canada, UK, etc).
 
What would I like to see happen?

They hire me as CEO, give me a blank check on decisions, and I move Colt to Texas, reinstitute the Colt Magnum Carry, bring out a Colt DAO .45/.40/9mm polymer 1911, make a less expensive version of the M4/AR15, and have Colt make a stainless P-35.

The revolver may be obsolete as a duty weapon, but not as a ccw one.

Deaf
 
GlockFan said:
I was thinking about this today. How about Beretta takes them. They would have the cash. They have a history in the firearms business. They are currently moving out of the north east to a friendly area. The product lines are not overlapping. To me they would be the best option I can think of.
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Beretta buying Colt's assets (and not Colt the company) is a VERY intriguing prospect. They have the financial clout to make a very strong bid. They would have no trouble building high quality versions of the M4/AR15 or the M1911. They already build (through their Uberti Division) a high quality example of the 1873 SAA. I'm sure they could build very high quality DA revolvers without resorting to "hand fitting" to get them to work.

It would all depend how cheaply and cleanly they could buy Colt's assets. I think FN is largely in the same boat.
 
B!ngoFuelUSN said:
Wow, this is interesting. To me it sounds like we should wait for another shoe to drop. What does MS know that would lead them to believe that this is a prudent investment, and with such seemingly liberal terms? I suspect that the only thing that they could know is that they have a plan to make the company healthier. Either a roll-up with a few others, or a structuring of the company, it's management and its strategic plan. Thus they would be giving themselves the liberal terms. If this is the IB side of MS, this would be standard practice. But I'm surprised they would take a shot after the Cerberus debacle.
Still, it is life support which beats the alternative.
B
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It's not what Morgan knows -- it's what Morgan received. The loan is secured. In the past Colt hawked its giant historical arms collection so it's not that. I don't know that Colt really has anything else of hard value except perhaps some real estate that does not secure their existing debt?

The only other thing I can think of is that through legal gymnastics, it might be that they somehow still had their name and trademarks to use as collateral?
 
It's not what Morgan knows -- it's what Morgan received. The loan is secured. In the past Colt hawked its giant historical arms collection so it's not that. I don't know that Colt really has anything else of hard value except perhaps some real estate that does not secure their existing debt?

The only other thing I can think of is that through legal gymnastics, it might be that they somehow still had their name and trademarks to use as collateral?
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It's a smoke screen. When a company files bankruptcy the courts decide who gets to pick the bones first. MS just put themselves at the front of the line by becoming Colts number one creditor. MS wanted the company plain and simple. They essentially just purchased it.

Buy them Colts now boys cause they are about to become collectors.

The end.
 
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I'd be the first to admit I don't understand the intricacies of 1911 platform.

That said, the Colt models seem to be at least a third more expensive than say Ruger SR1911, and - again, to me, not having a good understanding of the platform - there's not much to justify the price but a four letter word. And Ruger can't be lower in quality, judging by all other Rugers.

Besides, Colt seems to be a one-trick pony, at least in pistols. Ruger, S&W, CZ all have a variety of different models / actions / frames to chose from; Colt makes the same 1911 in different sizes and calibers and trigger actions. So does Glock, but they seem to be much more successful in it, because of innovation, reliability, clever marketing, and decent price. I think out of the brands I listed Ruger is the most willing to experiment and offer different choices, and S&W and CZ are catching up, plenty of threads about Shield or LCR or P-07 vs this or that, but it's been a long time since I've read anything new and exciting about Colt handguns.

The UAW (what in the world do they have to do with this industry ?) are but a small factor, and honestly the laws of CT are a non-factor. The Colt company has been destroyed by mismanagement from the very top.
 
I've always been very harsh on Colt but they are building a better 1911 than a great many other makers. Including Ruger. Colt is also the only current source for a premium SAA.
 
CoalTrain49 said:
It's a smoke screen. When a company files bankruptcy the courts decide who gets to pick the bones first. MS just put themselves at the front of the line by becoming Colts number one creditor. MS wanted the company plain and simple. They essentially just purchased it.

Buy them Colts now boys cause they are about to become collectors.

The end.
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Actually there are rules on who goes first. Some debtors are subordinated to others. No matter what, Morgan would only receive a percentage of the company if it defaulted.

I have absolutely no doubt that Colt firearms will continue to be made -- quite possibly with higher product quality. It's just a matter of who exactly will be making them.
 
Kynoch said:
I have absolutely no doubt that Colt firearms will continue to be made -- quite possibly with higher product quality. It's just a matter of who exactly will be making them.
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I'm torn. When I look at a Colt that is new production...I'm impressed by the level of fit and finish in a $1000 1911. The roll marks looks great, the blueing is so dang good that I don't want to send it off to get a front sight cut and refinish. Take away any of those things, and it is just another 1911 that runs good out of the box.

DSCF0074_zps92a5d28b.jpg

Now 9 out of 10 friend who look at it and compare it to my ruger sr1911 have no idea what I'm complaining about when I complain about how cheap and cheesy the laser cut emblems look on the ruger IMHO.

They do need to take some notes from springfield, though. The operator line is wildly successful. I owned a champion operator and I understand why. You get quite a bit of product for the money. Colt needs to put more focus on that arena. Basicaly, they need to take all these "talo" models they've made recently (clap government, clapp commander and the CCG) and make those regular catalog items. Add in a commander rail gun for the tactical fans to compete with the champion operator. They have a great product, their marketing and placement has been sucking, though.

5473C58A-5D6C-4E85-883E-0E2471C92B53_zpsouvk7kge.jpg

I get the feeling that either workmanship or product details that folks like me care about are going to take a hit.
 
Colt needs to start licensing its name out to a large ammo manufacturer. This requires zero start up costs yet creates instant income.

Then they need find a polymer handgun that they can quickly put into production. Market it aggressively.

Combine that with more economical AR15s and cut the legs out from low cost AR builders. Do this by pricing similar or under their cost and build value with their history of the M4/AR15. What would you rather buy, a $600 noname or a $575 Colt AR?

Even if margins are slim, some profit is better than none. Plus once their name becomes more mainstream again they can branch out into manufacturing ammo and bringing high end revolvers back.

Come on who doesn't want to purchase a brand new, factory test fired and never bubba'd snake gun? I'd be in line for one even if it did cost an arm and a leg.
 
stompah said:
Colt needs to start licensing its name out to a large ammo manufacturer. This requires zero start up costs yet creates instant income.
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Why would an ammo maker cut Colt in on their profits? Would using Colt's name actually sell more ammo? I rather doubt it, particularly if they ammo was more expensive simply because it carried the Colt name. Either way, I suspect the income from such an arrangement would be peanuts.

stompah said:
Then they need find a polymer handgun that they can quickly put into production. Market it aggressively.
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Really? That's a cutthroat market that's sure to become even more competitive in the coming years. Not sure I would want to depend on competing with Glock, SIG, S&W, Ruger, Springfield, etc. for my existence. Perhaps in time, but this would be no short term solution. It would take years to build a presence in that market.

stompah said:
Combine that with more economical AR15s and cut the legs out from low cost AR builders. Do this by pricing similar or under their cost and build value with their history of the M4/AR15. What would you rather buy, a $600 noname or a $575 Colt AR?
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Colt's cost basis given their debt, union contract and location are higher than their competitors. They would get their face torn off if they tried to undercut the bottom feeders.

stompah said:
Even if margins are slim, some profit is better than none. Plus once their name becomes more mainstream again they can branch out into manufacturing ammo and bringing high end revolvers back.
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Those low margin sales would also cannibalize the sale of other Colt AR-15 pattern rifles that are more profitable/unit.

stompah said:
Come on who doesn't want to purchase a brand new, factory test fired and never bubba'd snake gun? I'd be in line for one even if it did cost an arm and a leg.
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?
 
Colt is on the precipice of no return. Ruger SR 1911 is one success story at a great price. Colt just too overpriced when one can find the Ruger a much better value.
 
I think it is a good idea for Colt to get into the ammo business. They can either license their name out for cut of the profits or tool up to sell ammo themselves. But I think they should still move to a more gun friendly state.
.
 
As much as I hate to say it, maybe it's time to send that pony to the great gluepot in the sky. Historical nostalgia is no reason to keep a long failing business around. This is just another example of an American company playing the "Too big to fail" card. I would never expect the federal government, or even the state of CT, to bail them out (again), not with the current administrations.
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I agree. It is time. Colt was not willing to be innovative and engage in new production. They were stuck on producing more of the same. That does not work in our age of high capacity, polymer, square, virtually unbreakable guns as well as this environment.

Sorry but people want Glock 19's and M&P's and ANYTHING in FDE more than they want an $1100 revolver.


I just hope the name doesn't get bought out by some overseas company and attemtp to "keep it alive" and act like it's the same company... I'm looking at you Springfield Armory!
 
I like some of their older products but honestly for the most part the stuff they are selling today is WAY overpriced. They are trying to get away with selling the name.

1911's - Good looking, shoot well, sort of like every other 1911 I have shot from Kimber, to STI to RIA's for $300 Again...just trying to sell the name.
AR's - You can get equal or better out of a PSA, RRA, etc. for 1/2 or 1/3 the price

Sig copies the Colt Mustang in the P238 and offers 100 different variations of it for around $450+ depedning on colors and grips and sights. Colt sits around and watches as it becomes one of the most successful "pocket pistols" in the history of history they reintroduce the NEW Mustang just in time to watch everyone jump off the .380 train and get on board the new pocket 9's. Oh and they also wanted $850 +/- for their Mustang and to my knowledge did not offer many if any variations.

Colt killed Colt.
 
Kynoch said:
Colt's cost basis given their debt, union contract and location are higher than their competitors. They would get their face torn off if they tried to undercut the bottom feeders.

?
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It's not like the majority of their competition comes from some child labor sweat shops in China.

Are you saying that making guns in Austria or Germany or Switzerland is cheaper than in CT ? Do you know just how strong the unions are over there ? Or what kind of taxes they have to pay ? You know, socialized health care, generous pension packages, month long paid vacations, a year long paid paternity leave for mother or father, VAT taxes, etc. Yet somehow Walther, Sig and Glock and Steyr manage to be successfull without overpricing their guns as badly as Colt does. Or perhaps they overprice them and still are successful ;)

90% of problems are tied to mismanagement, Colt or GM or any other company.
 
I'd like to see them recover and continue to produce fine quality made-in-the-USA firearms.
 
Considering what collectible Colt's go for these days, perhaps they should move to Texas and concentrate on low volume but high quality reissues of the guns that made them, from the Patterson to the 1911A1. An import duty on the Italian wannabees would help.

Back in the '70s I bought a pair of Navy Colts that were made by Colt from the original dies (and picking up the serial numbers where they were left off at the end of the original production run) and to date they are the best quality revolvers I've ever owned.

Just my 2¢ worth.
 
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