Remington's motivation for moving.

In his letter, Kolltides also said the quality of the workforce, business environment, tax and economic incentives and existing infrastructure also influenced the move to Alabama.

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Im sure the laws were a tipping point, but my guess is they have been wanting to take advantage of the better economic conditions they will find in Alabama. This gave them a reason.

I think the main reason is this, "New Yorker Against Gun Violence Executive Director Leah Gunn Barrett said she believes Remington’s decisions are based more on New York’s business climate than its gun control laws."

New York's taxes, business and personal, are extremely high and the state has seen a lot of wealthy people leave for greener pastures where the taxes are lower.

And it doesn't hurt that southern states are a more business and personal tax friendly area and lower labor costs. Many southern states are "at will" employment and not union friendly. I think this reinforces my opinion, "Kollitides also said workforce quality, business environment, tax and economic incentives, and existing infrastructure impacted the decision to open a plant in Alabama."

Incentives offered by state, county and city governments can be quite substantial for a company. I worked for 18 years in my state's economic development department and there is quite a bidding war between states for a company that will bring in that many jobs and the status of having a "Remington" locate in your state.

I think the anti-gun reason is to appeal to the pro-gun crowd and down play the financial incentive reasons. Glad to see it though, it is a bit of a sharp stick in the eye of the anti-gunners.

Just curious, what is Remington's Union status? Does anyone know?

Agsalaska said:

Just curious, what is Remington's Union status? Does anyone know?

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Just did a quick search, yes they are.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index...._not_good_for_ilion_plant_union_official.html

*a tad off topic but...

Did anyone onther than me notice NYAGV executive director's name is Leah Gunn Barrett? I also wonder if she is related to Ronni Barrett?

Despite being an ex-NYC resident (born and raised), and having lived for almost a decade in what is called 'upstate NY' (which is really defined as anything except the NYC metro area), I commend and support the move.
I do feel for the people and employees in Ilion. Neither their employees nor likely the citizens of the city caused this.
I suspect this new site in Huntsville, which is a great place to find highly skilled machine workers and rocket scientists due to NASA/Air Force presence (a real SR71 Blackbird was parked outside of their air and space museum one of the times I was there) and may aid Remington in improving their products and business outlook. But this foretells the 'end state' for the company which will sadly hollow out Ilion. I'm sure it will be within two years that their president will announce that they decided to close down the N.Y. facility. It is doubtlessly already in their strategic plan.
Ironically and idiotically, Governor Cuomo made it clear that they weren't wanted. And he and many New Yorkers got their way. Two thousand jobs plus or minus is nothing to sneeze at in any state. And certainly in N.Y. outside of NYC.
I think it's great BTW that this is the trend. Didn't Magpul leave CO for similar reasons? How many jobs did they take with them? I don't think these actions are enough to sway the anti-gun crowd, but I'm a strong believer in death by a thousand cuts.
B

Keep in mind that Remington was literally given an 850K square foot building in Huntsville, AL with all sorts of other goodies. It was their day at the public trough.

B!ngoFuelUSN said:

Despite being an ex-NYC resident (born and raised), and having lived for almost a decade in what is called 'upstate NY' (which is really defined as anything except the NYC metro area), I commend and support the move.
I do feel for the people and employees in Ilion. Neither their employees nor likely the citizens of the city caused this.
I suspect this new site in Huntsville, which is a great place to find highly skilled machine workers and rocket scientists due to NASA/Air Force presence (a real SR71 Blackbird was parked outside of their air and space museum one of the times I was there) and may aid Remington in improving their products and business outlook. But this foretells the 'end state' for the company which will sadly hollow out Ilion. I'm sure it will be within two years that their president will announce that they decided to close down the N.Y. facility. It is doubtlessly already in their strategic plan.
Ironically and idiotically, Governor Cuomo made it clear that they weren't wanted. And he and many New Yorkers got their way. Two thousand jobs plus or minus is nothing to sneeze at in any state. And certainly in N.Y. outside of NYC.
I think it's great BTW that this is the trend. Didn't Magpul leave CO for similar reasons? How many jobs did they take with them? I don't think these actions are enough to sway the anti-gun crowd, but I'm a strong believer in death by a thousand cuts.
B

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I'm not sure that's the case. First, Remington is consolidating many of their non-Ilion operations from across the US into their new 850K square foot Huntsville facility. It would be interesting to know how many square feet they will collectively consume?

Second, Ilion is 1M square feet by itself and it's full. While it's largely comprised of old, multi-story "mill" buildings that are not as space efficient as the structure in Huntsville, I seriously doubt all of it would fit -- particularly once the other operations are moved to Huntsville.

Third, it wouldn't be all that simple to move what's produced in Ilion. Much of it does require skilled labor that's familiar with the product. Remington has already botched the transfer of Marlin and H&R. Would they risk the same with Remington on a much larger scale?

Fourth and perhaps most important, if they shut down the manufacturing element of the Ilion plant, they would be forced to clean it up. That's a factory dating from 1828 that produced arms at an all-out pace for several wars. I can just imagine the tons of chemicals that have been dumped on that site over the years. Cleaning it up could cost hundreds of millions. You can bet the NY politicos would crucify Remington on this matter.

FWIW, I suspect Magpul actually moved less than 100 jobs...

If indeed 2000 jobs were lost, Cuomo is an idiot. OK, he's an idiot even if no jobs were lost. His stated agenda is to improve the economics of upstate NY, an area suffering from loss of industry and jobs. To loss jobs because of his anti gun policies is a tragedy.

No doubt Remington is taking advantage via public relations to leave their traditional base with high paying jobs and high taxes and run to a place that will offer them tax incentives and low wages. But if Cuomo's policies actually did have anything to do with their move, he should be vilified in the press.

I'm sure he'll say he's glad they're moving, let him tell that to all the people who'll lose their jobs. I'm sure they'll be willing to vote for him for president.

Fourth and perhaps most important, if they shut down the manufacturing element of the Ilion plant, they would be forced to clean it up. That's a factory dating from 1828 that produced arms at an all-out pace for several wars. I can just imagine the tons of chemicals that have been dumped on that site over the years.

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Very good post. The grounds of Remington's Ilion plant are likely an environmental horror story. A company that is found lacking in one major regulatory area is usually lacking in other areas.

In 2011 Remington's Ilion plant received an inspection by OSHA. The fine was $170,000.

Specifically, OSHA found violations involving a lack of personal protective equipment; accumulations of toxic substances lead and cadmium on surfaces in the plant; food and beverages stored and consumed at cadmium-contaminated work stations; failing to provide workers with training and information on lead and cadmium; and not determining cadmium exposure levels. The inspection also identified numerous electrical hazards and instances of unguarded moving machine parts; improper storage and transfer of flammable liquids; a lack of procedures to lock out machines' power sources to prevent their unintended startup during maintenance; unguarded openings and defective ladders; defective powered industrial trucks and untrained drivers; inadequate fire extinguisher training and availability; unlabeled permit-required confined spaces; no continuous, effective extermination program for vermin; unlabeled containers of hazardous chemicals; and several exit deficiencies including a locked exit door, obstructed exit routes, umarked exits, and non-functioning emergency and exit lighting. A serious violation occurs when there is substantial probability that death or serious physical harm could result from a hazard about which the employer knew or should have known.

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https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=NEWS_RELEASES&p_id=21336

Just think about the stuff they do there. They run plating lines, bluing lines, they spray wood finishes and they have been doing it for a very long time. Dumping solvents into an on-site pond would have been standard practice years ago.

The clean-up fees could be staggering. Then again maybe they could avoid them by keeping the museum going and just mothballing the rest of the plant?

Speedo66 said:

If indeed 2000 jobs were lost, Cuomo is an idiot. OK, he's an idiot even if no jobs were lost. His stated agenda is to improve the economics of upstate NY, an area suffering from loss of industry and jobs. To loss jobs because of his anti gun policies is a tragedy.

No doubt Remington is taking advantage via public relations to leave their traditional base with high paying jobs and high taxes and run to a place that will offer them tax incentives and low wages. But if Cuomo's policies actually did have anything to do with their move, he should be vilified in the press.

I'm sure he'll say he's glad they're moving, let him tell that to all the people who'll lose their jobs. I'm sure they'll be willing to vote for him for president.

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Cuomo does not care about losing jobs when they live off taxing wall st where wall st makes a computer entry profit of 100 billion profit on nothing and NY gets to tax it

alsaqr said:

Very good post. The grounds of Remington's Ilion plant are likely an environmental horror story. A company that is found lacking in one major regulatory area is usually lacking in other areas.

In 2011 Remington's Ilion plant received an inspection by OSHA. The fine was $170,000.

https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=NEWS_RELEASES&p_id=21336

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Thanks for the posting. That OSHA report is not one describing a tightly run operation. It makes Remington Ilion sound like a tired old schlock shop. I wonder if it has seriously degraded since DuPont owned them?

Now I'm really curious about potential clean-up costs if they closed.

I am a transient to my area and I can without a doubt say that of all the other transients I know, there are more from New York than every other state combined. The reasons they cite:

income taxes, weather, property taxes, weather, vehicle tag fees, drivers license renewal fees, weather, unfriendly to teachers, vehicle inspections.....and on and on.

I has got to be one of the worst states to be financially successful in let alone just living daily life in. I can only imagine operating a business there is equally unprofitable.

It would be very telling of how crappy NY is by how many Remington employees move with their job down to AL.

Well, whatever the reason, or reasons, from a born n' bred son of the south ... "welcome south brother". Glad to have ya, ya heah.

My B-I-L is a manufacturing engineer and I have seen first hand what they are capable of when it comes to utilizing all available space with modern machine tools.

ku4hx said:

Well, whatever the reason, or reasons, from a born n' bred son of the south ... "welcome south brother". Glad to have ya, ya heah.

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Be careful what you wish for. They are New Yawkers and have New Yawk values. And they'll be able to vote.

First people need to understand what Ceberus is. Ceberus is considered a strip and flip company. Make it lean and profitable then sell it for a profit. The only reason why Ceberus did not sell FGI in the last couple of years is because it has been extremely profitable. Now with the market slowing on firearm sales, I believe Ceberus will start to look at cutting ties with the newly formed Remington Outdoor Company (formerly known as Freedom Group Inc.).

Personally, if Ceberus sells out, in parts, I would like to see Marlin get bought by Ruger. I really don't who I would want to buy the rest.

HexHead said:

Be careful what you wish for. They are New Yawkers and have New Yawk values. And they'll be able to vote.

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you are right and they will bring their thoughts with them.
but I also welcome the move.

Moparnut said:

First people need to understand what Ceberus is. Ceberus is considered a strip and flip company. Make it lean and profitable then sell it for a profit. The only reason why Ceberus did not sell FGI in the last couple of years is because it has been extremely profitable. Now with the market slowing on firearm sales, I believe Ceberus will start to look at cutting ties with the newly formed Remington Outdoor Company (formerly known as Freedom Group Inc.).

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Actually Ceberus' plan was to take Freedom/Remington public. Even during boom times there wasn't enough interest for a successful IPO. I'm sure Remington is making money but I highly doubt it's raking in the cash else the IPO would have been successful.

Cerebus announced long ago that it would ultimately divest itself Remington so time will tell...

Palehorseman said:

My B-I-L is a manufacturing engineer and I have seen first hand what they are capable of when it comes to utilizing all available space with modern machine tools.

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I started out as an ME after I graduated from college. That's specifically why I doubt that the manufacturing operations filling a 1M square foot plant can fit into an 850K square foot factory that will already be partially full. At the very least there would be no room for expansion.

Remington doesn't rely on machinists tending banks of manual lathes and mills anymore. They have automated CNC equipment. Their biggest constraint today would be the design of their building itself and not the equipment they use.

George Dickel said:

Just did a quick search, yes they are.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index...._not_good_for_ilion_plant_union_official.html

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Remember......Alabama is a"right to work"state. The company hires the employee, and they decide weather they join the union or not. For the most part, union shops have declining membership, from what I have seen.

For the most part, union shops have declining membership, from what I have seen.

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Thoughts...
• I believe the high-point of union membership in the US was in the early 1950's and has been shrinking ever since.
• If a factory worker does not feel adequately supported by management, then I uphold their right to unionize just as I also uphold the worker's right to go back to school and prepare for another career. I also support the right of any business to move out of geographical areas where they cannot profitably operate. One side can't have it all.
• The 1 type union I cannot support is unionized government employees, which is a totally different beast from private industry. Let's not let our dislike for unionized bureaucrats color our feelings for the poor working family man who is about to loose his job AND see the value of his home shrink by 90% when Remington leaves. The real story here is that union factory workers are being shafted by unionized bureaucrats. That's the story that's not being covered here.