Horror Story: M&P 10 and S&W Customer Service

Status
Not open for further replies.

henschman

Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2010
Messages
2,880
Location
Oklahoma City
Have you ever heard that its dangerous to buy a firearm with a proprietary design, because you are stuck relying on just one company for replacement parts? I'm here to tell you that is a very valid concern, particularly with Smith & Wesson products.

I bought an M&P 10 last year, intending to use it for hunting, as well as in the battle rifle/DMR role. I liked its light weight and longer barrel. When I first bought it, a member of another forum told me about a friend's rifle, and showed me a picture showing how the stamped text on the skinny part of the barrel apparently imprinted itself somewhat inside the bore as well -- he asked me if mine had any such issues. Upon inspection, I didn't see anything like the stamp imprint, but I did notice an odd ring around the bore in one place. It looked to be about the same diameter and height as one of the lands of rifling, but it was simply a ring all around the bore in one spot, about midway between the gas block and the muzzle. I found it odd, but didn't think anything of it because I had already fired the rifle, and it exhibited very acceptable accuracy and seemed to function OK.

Fast forward to last year's Pecos Run 'n Gun... a 6 mile run through the desert in West Texas, with shooting stations along the way. I carried my M&P 10 for the event, along with my M&P .40 pistol. I was using Lake City 147 grain M80 ball for the event. The rifle shot great -- I shot the best time on several of the rifle stages with it. Now a little context -- this event occurred in the middle of the largest flood in living memory in that area, and there was some standing water to traverse. At one point in the course, I crossed some thigh deep water, even falling into a waist-deep hole at one point. After clearing the water, I retracted the charging handle and shook the rifle muzzle-down, just as a precaution against having any water retained in the bore (I was carrying the rifle slung across my chest in a "low ready" type position, and it did go partly under water during the crossing). When I got to the next stage, which involved a not-particularly-difficult 200 yard rifle shot, I fired a shot that I called good when it broke, but which did not score a hit. I also had a failure-to-feed malfunction. I cleared the malf and fired again... again calling the shot good but getting no hit, and having the same malf. The RO said that I was hitting way in front of the target, like 20 yards out. I disregarded this because I thought if it was a miss, it was a very close one and he must be mistaken. I fired another shot I called good... but this time I saw the mud fly in front of me from the bullet's impact, way lower than I was aiming, and again had the malf. Now I knew something was wrong, and began inspecting the rifle. Loose scope mount? Nope, it's tight. I then noticed the barrel. To my horror, it was split down the middle, with the split centered about halfway between the gas block and muzzle, and showing daylight all the way through. Incredibly, neither myself nor the RO noticed the split when it happened. Well, needless to say, that event was ruined, and I was unable to complete the rest of the stages. Other runners saw the rifle and thought that I must have plugged the barrel with mud. however, I never dropped the rifle or pushed the muzzle into the ground (it would have had to go in pretty far to not only plug up the flash hider but also the muzzle itself)... the worst I did was crawl under some barbed wire with the rifle cradled in front of me, getting a little muddy, and going through the water with it. Upon reflection, I thought about the strange ring in the rifle's bore, and realized that the barrel had split right at that point.

Now on to dealing with S&W's customer service. I called and was eventually able to reach a CS rep, who e-mailed me a return shipping label, and I sent the rifle off. About 2 months later, I received a letter stating that they determined that the split barrel was not due to a defect in workmanship or materials, and that they were declining to fix it under warranty. They did, however, offer to sell me a replacement rifle for $1100 and change. I called the rep whose name was on the letter, and asked how much a new barrel for the rifle would cost. I was shocked when he told me that they do not currently sell barrels separately for the M&P 10. I asked how much they would charge me to re-barrel the rifle if I paid for the work. He said he would have to check with management to see if this was even a possibility. After not hearing from anyone in a few weeks, I called, left messages, and finally heard back from one of their senior engineers who told me that his supervisor told him that they cannot replace just the barrel assembly on a rifle. I confirmed that they did not sell M&P 10 barrels. I said, somewhat incredulously, "so you won't warranty it, you won't fix it, and you won't sell me the parts to fix it myself? I basically have an $1100 paperweight?" He seemed somewhat embarrassed to have to give me this news. He said that he had no control over what management's policies were, and that if it were up to him, he would replace the barrel for a small fee. He said he was going to return the rifle to me.

So that's my situation. I have a broken rifle with well over $1000 tied up in it, with no way to either have it fixed, or to fix it myself. I suppose I put myself in that situation, by buying a proprietary design from a company that doesn't stand behind their products. Well, good job Smith & Wesson. You fooled me once. One thing is for sure though... I am not going to make that mistake again. Oh, and I'm going to be carrying a Glock from now on.
 
That is pretty astonishing. I would definitely push this all the way up he food chain. If you do, please keep us updated. I would be perfectly happy to write off SW if this is what it seems and not just a foul up by a few employees. Many times stories like these end up being an issue with incompetent workers on the other end of the phone. Anyway good luck if you choose to pursue.
 
Definitely a lousy situation.

It's why so far I've avoided .308 ARs; the lack of standardization between the brands like there is with AR15s. DPMS, however, looks to be leading on bringing some standardization to the forefront. I may have to change my mind sooner than later to get one. I'll have to see more on their quality standards.

Anyway, if S&W has replaced barrels under warranty for others, as opposed to entire rifles each time, I'd think there's some hope in this battle for you.

As an aside, I do remember seeing a poster on S&W's forum looking to trade his replacement barrel off. This was a couple of months ago. Or perhaps another brand's upper may fit on your lower? Maybe those are outside-the-box options for you.

Hope you can get this resolved soon.
 
So back to the abnormal rifling or ring. They couldnt see this with a bore scope?
 
He said:

To my horror, it was split down the middle, with the split centered about halfway between the gas block and muzzle, and showing daylight all the way through.

Doesn't sound like a bore scope was needed.

rc
 
Yeah. Sounds like a barrel obstruction to me. Can't really warranty split barrels. :D Just remove the barrel yourself and put a new one in. It can't be that proprietary. You'll need a complete DPMS bolt carrier group and barrel IIRC. You may also need a middy gas tube. What a turd. If they can't sell replacement parts, then no one should buy S&W rifles.

I can't find parts for anything S&W makes on their website. What kind of nonsense is that? So much for being better than Glock. Bury that thing and get a LMT, Larue, or DPMS genII.
 
Last edited:
I am also curious to know what makes this rifle so unusual that it cannot be re-barreled?
 
Screw them. Upgrade the barrel and never look back. JP makes a nice replacement barrel.
 
Have you ever heard that its dangerous to buy a firearm with a proprietary design, because you are stuck relying on just one company for replacement parts? I'm here to tell you that is a very valid concern, particularly with Smith & Wesson products.
Is that not true of 99% of firearms on the market? Really only AR shooters enjoy a high level of interchangeability between manufacturers of guns and parts.
 
I cannot simply go out and buy a new barrel for it from someone else because S&W's barrel extension is proprietary. Now I could have a gunsmith take the S&W extension off the split barrel and install it on some other barrel, but that would involve sinking hundreds more into this POS just to have some franken .308 that I would almost certainly not be able to sell for anything that would justify the expenditure. At this point, keeping the rifle is not really an option. I want out of this and all other S&W products. If I have to take a hit, I guess them's the breaks... but I'm not one to be fooled twice, I guarantee.

As far as taking this all the way up the chain, I don't know what more I could do. I've already talked to a senior engineer who told me flat out that this is their policy. It seems to be their "final answer." Now I'm just posting my story on every forum I'm a member of, to hopefully keep as many people as I can from making my same mistake.
 
It's unforunate it wasn't returned when you first noticed a problem. Where exactly is the burst? Can you shorten the barrel and still be at or above the 16" limit? If so you you should be able to have it cut and crowned for less than a new barrel
 
The answer to this in my view is quite simple and as far as I am concerned it's settled.

If Smith & Wesson won't sell people the parts needed to repair and maintain this firearm especially in a situation like this I don't think it would be wise for anyone to buy this product at all.

I am thankful for the original poster for sharing this misfortune and hope that this does not happen to anyone else.

There is absolutely no excuse for not supplying parts or service for a currently manufactured firearm. Buyer beware.

I will remember if the situation ever crosses me to steer clear of this disposable, non servicable, high priced proprietary product. I would never purchase a new firearm under those terms.

I would look for another quality AR platform. The AR platform has been around quite a while and if I were purchasing one non standard parts that are difficult to get would be a deal breaker for me since one of the significant points of the AR platform is standardized parts.
 
Last edited:
Can't expect them to warranty a barrel you thought you got the water and mud out of but apparently didn't.

However, I can't believe they wouldn't install a new barrel for a reasonable cost. As was said take it up the food chain of customer support.
 
There's something.. not right.

Why would they only offer to replace the whole rifle for $1100 when their website clearly offers complete uppers for sale for several hundred less. More expensive than just a barrel, but a viable alternative instead of a whole rifle replacement.

Oh wait... my bad, those are all only M&P15 uppers
 
As I've said, I've already exhausted the customer support route. I don't know what more to do... I've called them about my problem multiple times and followed up, and they've already told me to go pound sand.

I will take some pics when the rifle gets back to me.

As far as cutting and re-crowning, the burst was in between muzzle and gas block, but the cracks extend almost to the flash hider on one end and almost to the gas block on the other. If I cut it, it would leave me with something like a 10" barreled .308... something I have absolutely no use for and would be unable to sell.
 
It's already there, in the M&P 10 section. Now I see somebody had already linked my post in another topic in that forum where somebody else is having the exact same issue with a burst barrel.
 
Complain on their social media. In this day in age, CEO's often don't like the negative press and will personally address consumers issues.

An co-worker had a situation with AT&T, and she complained on their FB page. The next day an executive called her and resolved the situation.

Also, write a letter and send it certified mail address to the warranty manager. That's how I got my Glock replaced.

Good luck and hope you get a working rifle soon.
 
But,,,

But,,,
You're an attorney aren't you?

Bring the Wrath of the Solicitor down on their heads?

Show no mercy!
Take no prisoners!
Remember the Alamo!

Or not,,,

Aarond

.
 
Haha, yep, Im an attorney... I just don't think it's worth my time to sue them over a $999 rifle. Also I don't really have much of a legal claim... they don't actually have any kind of contractual duty to supply spare parts for a gun. If they decide they want to be the kind of company who makes a line of firearms and then refuses to stand behind the producct by not selling spare parts when they break, I guess that's their decision, and they can live with the consequences and the reputation it brings them.
 
Only explanation I can think up (and it's supported by....nothing) is that they have a concern that whatever split the barrel also damaged the rest of the rifle, including the upper and lower receivers.

That would explain why they didn't offer to sell/install an upper, at least. And as far as I know, ANYBODY who sold you a gun that you split the barrel on would refuse any warranty repair on it, so I'm not sure that, other than refusing to sell you just a barrel, you have much to complain about?


Larry
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top