Premo 223 & black bear

Most states don't allow calibers below .24 for hunting big game.

I do NOT think a .223 is a good choice for bear.

Not a good choice.

Having killed some mature Ohio whitetail does with 60 gr.224 Partitions,

your thought of black bear medicine would be way down my list.

Thicker hide, heavier bones, heart deeper inside...I don't think I'd choose a .223 for Brer Bar.

I live down south and I don't consider .223 adequate for much larger than coyotes. But, I guess you could get one of those 100 round drum magazines and just stop pulling the trigger when he finally stops kickin'.

Most that shoot hogs with an AR don't care if he dies today or three days from now, so long as the thing dies, eventually. It's like shooting rats, ya know? ME, I want to put it down now because it's going to end up in my freezer when it's all said and done. And, I ain't blood trailin' another pig into heavy cover ever again, nope, not me, not ever. Now, bear is a game animal and deserves the respect you should give any game animal. Use an adequate rifle with a proper bullet.

Most states don't allow calibers below .24 for hunting big game.

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The last stats I saw had only 4 states that allow rifles and do not allow 223. There are a handful of states that do not allow any modern rifles. There have been 3-4 that have changed their laws within the last few years, so the number has never been more than 7 or 8.

Very few states "DO NOT" allow 223, and it is very effective on deer size game. I wouldn't use one by choice on bear. Although on typical black bear it would probably do better than a lot think. The average size of a most black bear taken by hunters is around 200 lbs. Not any larger than a typical human and the 223 has proven to work quite well on humans.

The problem is that not all bear are typical. You never know when you're going to run into a 400-700 lb black bear.

I was gonna say sure, shoot a bear enough times with a .223 and it will die sooner, or later.

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Then I read the N.Y. Hunting regs, and 30 round mags are out!

So
See this first.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/35010.html

5-round magazine max capacity.

Rifle not legal in some county's.

Check you regs for the area you will be hunting.

rc

I'd say the consensus is 223 is not a good choice for black bear.

I'd say the consensus is 223 is not a good choice for black bear.

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Amen. When you see a deer and a bear hanging with the hide off, one looks like a skinny distance runner, the other like an Olympic weight lifter. Your traditional deer cartridges are better choices.

Laphroaig

I'd say no problem as long as you hit it in the eye.

Mcgunner said it best. A game animal should be treated with respect. A quick kill should be the goal.

A .243 using a 100 gr. Bonded core bullet would be my minimum choice for and average size black bear in the 150 to 200 lb. range. A.223 will kill a bear that size but, with a less than a perfect shot, your going to have a wounded bear to track and to make matters worse, your probably not going to have a good blood trail because of an unlikely pass through. That's not a good situation to have to deal with in heavy brush. I would look at a 6.5 or 7mm at least.

Patocazador said:

Most states don't allow calibers below .24 for hunting big game.

I do NOT think a .223 is a good choice for bear.

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Can`t figure out why some folks always want to run the edge on efficiency.
Plus, as another poster stated, There is a minimum cal size. Check your NY DNR site. That is a big site. Lots of zones.

You didn`t say what your experience is as far as big game hunting goes but when I see
your going to "try your hand at it this fall." I`m thinking, this is not bowling. Your going out to possibly kill a bear. Then asking, if your possible cal of choice will work.

If your an experienced big game hunter, My apologies. But your question leads me to think other wise.

Looks to me like you need a lot of "coaching." Everybody starts some where. Read up on the subject.

Hunting is killing something. It`s you job to get it done humanely.

Don`t mean to be hard on you.

If you handload. And you load a 62 grain TTSX bullet going about 3200 fps according to Barnes. With that setup a 223 has a bigger wound channel than a 30-30. Look it up on YouTube. Look on Barnes website and check the ballistics gelatin tests. Federal tested some bullets to see how they would penetrate after going through 2 inches of bone. The TTSX penetrated the same amount regardless of if it had to bust through bone. I would rather have a 223 with Barnes bullets than a 30-30 with conventional lead core.

I'd use something bigger than a .223, even on a smaller bear. They are just a little bit more robustly built than a deer.

Having never killed a Barr... I'd take something more fitting.

Black bear are not particularly difficult to kill. At, say, 100 yards, a .30-30 bullet in the 'kill-zone' will probably put it down to stay within 50 yards. This is OK as long as you are 100 yards away, or in a different direction from the bear's run. Re the .223 - large wound channels do not by themselves drop the bear in its tracks. When that pointy little bullet hits heavy bone (the bear has some) it is apt to head off somewhere other than the vitals, wound channel be damned.

And you load a 62 grain TTSX bullet going about 3200 fps according to Barnes.

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That kind of velocity out of a 5.56/.223 isn't going to happen.

FWIW, Wyoming just began allowing .223 for deer and pronghorn. The .223 is still a no-go because not all hunters seem to be able to use common sense. On the flip side, Montana has no restrictions on centerfire caliber for big game. Guess you could legally hunt bear with a .204 Ruger and 32 grain varmint loads. Legal doesn't always equate to ethical. Or does it?

These threads always end up with "I know guy who stuck a 32 acp in the ear of a deer that was flopping around after being hit by a car, and it killed it, so I'd recommend a .32acp". Or the infamous "they are not armor plated, its all about shot placement, so any caliber will work awesome.

It's your first time bear hunting. A lot of time and trouble to have the moment of truth resting on a questionable weapon. Use something that you don't have to ask about whether its sufficient to do the job. Maybe after a few successful hunts you'll change your mind on what's adequate, but I hate when beginners are being directed to use marginal equipment because somebody with years of successful hunting experience was successful using it.

A big +1 for that. Much better presentation than my geezerly blather.

"...an average black bear..." Yogi is a lot bigger in some places than he is elsewhere. He runs 125 to 500 pounds up here. Don't think a Barnes 60 TSX will penetrate a big 'un. Despite what Barnes suggests.
"...Look it up on YouTube..." YouTube is an authority on nothing.

Accurate has load data for 62 grain TTSX bullet.

For 223 rem

(Max Loads)
25.2 grains accurate 2460 Velocity 3,132 fps
26.8 grains accurate 2520 Velocity 3,140 fps

For 5.56 Nato

(Max Loads)
26.4 grains Ramshot X-terminator Velocity 3,296 fps
29.1 grains accurate 2520 Velocity 3,377 fps

Hodgon load data for 223 Rem with 62 grain TTSX
(Max Load)
27 grains CFE 223 Velocity 3200 fps

I agree YouTube has to be taken with a grain of salt but it is a whole lot better than guessing (even educated guessing).

Here is a video of Federal's bullet test.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMKvetaMqhE
It was done with a 30-06 but it shows how a ttsx bullet performs after going through bone.

I agree that .223 is not ok for bear (black,brown, or chinese) Id say a good .243 with a 90 gr or higher bullet would be the minimum however I know nothing of NY hunting laws and if its true that some countied forbade rifles maybe a good 12or 20 ga slug is order.

30-30 is the ideal all purpose round for a REASON.