Why No sSgnificant British or French Auto-loading Pistols?

I suspect neither country has a big handgun culture. Manufacturing, and export to the US isn't big either. There aren't many cars from either country (though they both make some) that come to the US.

Lots of countries don't produce certain goods...not sure of any Mexican gun companies, Irish gun companies, or South African gun companies...nothing too serious there. Narrowing it down to handguns is a big step, and to autoloading handguns is leaps and bounds more restrictive. The French kinda peaked in handguns with Webley revolvers, and the British with the old caplock handguns...after the French built the webleys John M. Browning was selling patents to FNH as fast as he could and they were building as many as they could so in that era the rest of europe focused on other things since FNH pretty much cornered the European market...kinda like today since a few companies rule the world of handguns.

WestKentucky said:

Lots of countries don't produce certain goods...not sure of any Mexican gun companies, Irish gun companies, or South African gun companies...nothing too serious there. Narrowing it down to handguns is a big step, and to autoloading handguns is leaps and bounds more restrictive. The French kinda peaked in handguns with Webley revolvers, and the British with the old caplock handguns...after the French built the webleys John M. Browning was selling patents to FNH as fast as he could and they were building as many as they could so in that era the rest of europe focused on other things since FNH pretty much cornered the European market...kinda like today since a few companies rule the world of handguns.

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Your post is hilariously incorrect and not just the part about "French" Webleys! I don't know where to begin in making a lengthy explanation or have the time to point out all your errors about gun making in the mentioned countries so please make Google your friend. You are at least correct that none of those countries has much of an international reputation for semiauto pistols, although they have made them.

Brits used various .455 Webley Revolvers before and after WWI

Various S&W / Colt Revolvers and ended up adopting the Browning
High Power, along with others in the Commonwealth

I think there was a semi-auto by Webley but not successful.

How many decades and Mk n? versions of the Enfield rifle?

The French? They passed on the BHP and adopted an inferior
French/Swiss design.

R-

The brits had quite a few autoloaders
none were huge successes in 'name brand'
but then Browning HAS NO PRODUCTION CAPABILITY
FN re-marketed Browning designs
Colt sold Spanish pistols...

So before you say never, you might want to go back, and BTW
they had 2 HUGE hits in handguns, ever heard of a Sterling, a Sten gun?
And their BHPs were issue in WWII

From what I know of England, everybody carries Desert Eagle .50's, S&W 681's, and replica guns.

Full disclosure - my knowledge of England comes from the movie Snatch.

hAkron said:

From what I know of England, everybody carries Desert Eagle .50's, S&W 681's, and replica guns.

Full disclosure - my knowledge of England comes from the movie Snatch.

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They mostly carry knives, clubs, and makeshift guns now. Violence has not halted with the banning of almost all guns. Imagine that.

Significant French auto loading handgun
Significant British auto loading handgun

Both can be considered as oxymoron's.

WestKentucky said:

The French kinda peaked in handguns with Webley revolvers

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This could hardly be further from the truth -- in more ways than one.

By the way, South Africa has a significant arms industry, and some of its small arms have been/are exported here.

I used to wonder why there were no American made Browning Hi-Powers. I mean, Browning is an American company right?

Usually after the above thought I get a hankering to shoot my old "T" model. Every time I shoot it the thought of an all "American made" BHP just fades away. Highly reliable, glass smooth trigger and looks pretty good too. "Made in the USA" ... why bother? Maybe the French and British have reached a similar conclusion.

BlindJustice said:

The French? They passed on the BHP and adopted an inferior
French/Swiss design.

R-

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Well if you mean the S.A.C.M. 1935A, and 1935S, I wouldn't say they are inferior designs, but the 7.65MM French caliber is inferior to 9MM Luger. They are solid pistols though. I have a 1935A that is a great shooter.

Ever wonder why British secret agent James Bond never carried British handguns? This is why.

wally said:

Why No sSgnificant British or French Auto-loading Pistols?

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<can't...re...sist...>...

...based on their cars, I'd say it's because they can't figure out how to make them burn oil.


<...rimshot>

I always liked the Mab pa-15. At one time it was the highest capacity pistol out there.

Dear sir,

You said violence did not decrease in the UK. You are using hyperbole and possible data that came from a man that was completely discredited nearly 2 decades ago for falsifying his data.

Violence, both assault and murder, by a weapon of any make, is higher in the US than the UK. When you control for actual statistical variables, you are more likely to die or be assaulted by a weapon in the US than the UK. Knife or gun.

Here it is from one of the most reputable business mags in the world. http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2013/09/gun-control

I enjoy shooting and own/have owned more guns than imagine most people on this site have. That doesn't mean I won't investigate or accept issues with my hobby.

wild cat mccane said:

Dear sir,

You said violence did not decrease in the UK. You are using hyperbole and possible data that came from a man that was completely discredited nearly 2 decades ago for falsifying his data.

Violence, both assault and murder, by a weapon of any make, is higher in the US than the UK. When you control for actual statistical variables, you are more likely to die or be assaulted by a weapon in the US than the UK. Knife or gun.

Here it is from one of the most reputable business mags in the world. http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2013/09/gun-control

I enjoy shooting and own/have owned more guns than imagine most people on this site have. That doesn't mean I won't investigate or accept issues with my hobby.

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Your link does not go to any article. Instead, it looks like it goes to a French search engine of some sort.

If we can get back on topic...

I had the opportunity to handle one of those Webley autoloaders some time back - it's as clunky as it looks.

Why no significant British automatics? The British Army didn't standardize on an automatic until 1954, when they chose the Hi Power. Relying on Webley-pattern revolvers for so long and then going to the BHP, there was never a real opportunity for the British small arms industry to develop a modern automatic.

Why no significant French automatics? They drove development of the Hi Power, only to turn away from it and adopt the Modéle 1935 in 7.65mm Longue - just in time for WWII to throw everything into disarray. From the Mle 1935 was derived the MAC Mle 1950 in 9x19, but with French pistols being manufactured by government arsenals, export for the civilian market wasn't on the table. Eventually they adopted a Beretta 92 variant, built locally, and that was that for French industry.

"...The French kinda peaked in handguns with Webley..." Um. What?
"...no American made Browning Hi-Powers..." Nobody Stateside would make 'em for JM. Then he died before the design was completed. Dieudonné Joseph Saive finished it and added that daft mag safety for European police requirements.
The Webley & Scott Pistol Self-Loading pre-dates the 1911 Government by one year. Used by London Police in .380 and later the RFC and Royal Artillery, but not the Army.

Not so much inaccurate as poorly worded...chalk that up to 16 hours at work after 5 hours of sleep...but of well known, recognized guns, the brits don't have much past muzzle loader days, and as for the french, well...the French are a peaceful people who did a great job with pinfire and early centerfire revolvers, but not much past that. Sure there are others which are not well known, but of guns recognized by the masses...not so much.

WestKentucky said:

Not so much inaccurate as poorly worded...chalk that up to 16 hours at work after 5 hours of sleep...but of well known, recognized guns, the brits don't have much past muzzle loader days, and as for the french, well...the French are a peaceful people who did a great job with pinfire and early centerfire revolvers, but not much past that. Sure there are others which are not well known, but of guns recognized by the masses...not so much.

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The French "peaceful"? The were second only to the British as militant 18th-20th century empire builders with noncontiguous colonies around the globe.

Among the cognoscenti the French are well know for their innovative firearm designs that have often led the way for other nation's designers. They had the first smokeless powder military rifle, they created the first modern artillery piece with the famous Model 1897 75mm cannon, and they provided a huge amount of the military equipment the weakling U.S. Army used to fight with during WWI. The U.S. was still relying on the French 75mm design into WWII.

Get some sleep then hit the history books.

Can you even own hand guns in either of those countries?

That might have a bit to do with it.

Zerodefect said:

Can you even own hand guns in either of those countries?

That might have a bit to do with it.

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Contrary to popular belief.
A qualified/approved citizen CAN own handguns in both France and the U.K.
However, there are restrictions to deal with

Talk about a thread spinning dizzyingly out of control...

"Maybe I'm ignorant, but there doesn't seem to be any significant British or French auto-loading handguns on US the market."

It's not just that they are not present on the U.S. market... They simply never existed in the first place... Significant French or British autoloaders, that is.

There is however the oddity of the 1935A being developed by a French Foreign Legion alumni from Switzerland for the French military. Later, it became the Sig 210. Not a lot of them in the U.S. but they are a significant pistol.

Todd.

Perhaps one reason is traditionally police in the UK (France too?) do not carry pistols.