Make sure I don't blow up my gun

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WolverineFury

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Howdy all. So, yesterday, about a year after I first decided that I wanted to reload, I have finally set up my press, got my components, and churned out my first 50* rounds of 9mm last night. But before I go out and shoot them I'd like to ask all you seasoned reloaders if there is anything in what you see here which may be unsafe/may require change.

So here is my load data.

Powder used: Alliant Bullseye - 3.6 grains (Taken from MidwayUSA 9mm LoadMap pg. 44)
Bullet used : 115 gr TMJ RN 9mm from Rockey Mountain Reloading
Primers used: Small Pistol Primers No. 100 from Federal
Overall case length : 1.151 inches +/- a few thousandths.

The Cases were all brass. I inspected them all by rotating them in my fingers under light and found nothing more than a small scratch marks mostly from the extractor. These cases "passed" my inspection.

The ammo was all loaded with the 3 set Lee Carbide dies on the Lee 4 Hole Turret Press. The Powder was poured with the Auto Disk Powder Measure.

*The first 5 - 10 rounds I pulled with a kinetic puller since I was working on getting my seating depth right (they were initially seating at about 1.131) . When doing this I found that the bullets had a very pronounced ring around them similar to this (thought not quite as bad) - (this is just a photo I got off of google image, sorry it's so big)

IMG_1313.jpg

Of course, this was before I had the bullet seater die fully adjusted. Now it leaves only a very slight ring around the bullet and seats at a OAL of 1.151".

Is this anything to worry about/the needs changed either way? What effect might this have on pressures? In both cases the case measured .378 where it meets the bullet. Also I went ahead and used those bullets with the highly defined rim again on the new setting. Should I not have done that?

As far as the actual process goes I measured the overall case length of probably 15 out of the 50 finished rounds and they were all measuring within 3 thousandths of an inch either way. Acceptable?

I was measuring the weight of the powder charge aprox' every 4 rounds. I was getting charges never exceeding .1 grain either way. Acceptable?

Another question about brass. After seating the bullet I noticed a shiny rim where the case meets the bullet. Once again, anything that needs changed here? What does it signify?

6t002q.jpg



Thanks in advance everyone. Sorry for all of the nitpicking questions. I figured that you can be too careful though.

P.S. I noticed when measuring the OAL for several different factory rounds that I own, that some measure 1.113" while others measure 1.170". Is the powder used what causes such a wide range in the OAL?
 
Sounds OK to me! My thoughts; Way too much crimp. IMO no "crimp" should be used on semi-auto ammo, just use a taper crimp die to straighten the case mouth back down to aid in feeding/chambering. This has worked on my many 9mms and 45 ACP reloads. But go ahead and shoot those, not any safety issues.

To determine good OAL, I start at or near max. length and use the "plunk test" to find an OAL for my gun. Seating the bullet deeper as necessary.

Not familiar with Midway's Load Map, but I would suggest a published manual (Lyman's 49th, and a jacketed bullet manufacturer's manual; Hornady makes an excellent one). FWIW, I pay no attention to any forum expert, range rat, gun counter clerk, pet loads website, or gunshop guru for any reloading data. I've been getting 95%+ of my data from published manuals for nearly 30 years and I ain't run out of new loads yet.

I think the other variations you mention (powder charges and OAL) are well within safe working tolerances.

Go slow, double check everything, and most importsant, have fun! ;).
 

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I will attempt to answer your questions.

Crimp- your google picture is perfect size while your picture is hard to see good. the picture you found on google is from crimping way too much. for 9mm, you don't want to crimp, rather you just want to remove any (minimal) case belling that you needed to do to seat the bullet. to easily set up your crimp die, simply back out the die, take a sized case and run it up into the die. then screw the die down until you feel the taper crimp make firm contact with the case. this will remove any belling and return the case to how it was out of the sizing die. again, an actual crimp is typically detrimental in an auto. it squeezes down the bullet and reduces neck tension.

powder charge- while there is plenty of data out there on the interwebs, I dont suggest picking a random number larry potterfield gave you. Instead, buy a reputable load book. You will see a min/max charge. start at the minimum, load 10 rounds, and go up .2-.3gr loading 10 rounds of each until you reach max. Then test these at the range and see what one shoots best for you. once you find a good load, then load up a box of 50.

OAL- do not take into account any lengths you see in the manuals or online. every bullet and every gun is different. load to the maximum overall length that will pass the plunk test in your barrel. Take your guns barrel out, slowly seat bullets deeper and deeper until the rounds freely "plunk" in the chamber and fall out easily when you invert the barrel. Then ensure these fit in your magazine.

also, your variance in overall length is acceptable. most seating stems hit the ogive of the bullets and not the nose. your seating depth variance will depend on the consistency of the projectile.

pictured on the left is a perfect "crimp", on the right, is way way over crimped.
 

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Sorry that second pic was too small. Below is a blown up copy.

Thanks for the note on crimping. It looks like I still need to back my die out just a little bit more.

Also I do own a copy of Lyman's 49th Reloading Handbook, just forgot to list that as one of my sources. :rolleyes: It matches the info in the previously mentioned source.


hsjiol.jpg
 
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The shiny edge of your case likely just signifies where the seating die contacted the brass when tapering the bell back out. You will see a similar shiny edge if you use the Lee Factory Crimp Die to crimp separately from seating (at least I do most of the time). Nothing to worry about.
 
All good information but I would add one thing. When seating auto pistol bullets, I don't try to taper crimp at all. Alter seating I use a Lee Factory Crimp Die in a separate step to just remove the belling from seating so I end up with a straight case wall that easily passes the "plunk test" that reefinmike mentioned. Have fun.
 
Sounds like you are forgetting to adjust the seater plug independently of the die body. Adjust the die body to crimp and the seater plug to get your OAL, independently of the die body.

Or maybe it's just how you worded things that gives me that impression.
 
I did word it poorly. In the end I did get the crimp that I was initially going for, and then worked on the bullet seating depth with the seater plug. I think that now I am going to back out the seater die a little bit, and screw in the seater plug to achieve my desired OAL with nothing more than a taper crimp.

Also, another question. Does anyone know what the line running around the case is in this picture? I've seen it on lots of brass, but have never been able to find an answer.

30969d1340288834-there-any-9-mm-bottlenecked-cartridges-out-there-sn850550.jpg
 
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your blown up picture of your crimp actually looks just right to me. easier to know 100% seeing it in person, but it looks good to go for me!

that ring you see on the brass is a cannelure crimp some ammo mfgs use on their fancy carry ammo to prevent bullet setback. the crimp is just under the base of the original bullet. typically it is more pronounced than your picture, but the brass irons itself out after a few firings.
 
Data sounds fine but that appears to be a mighty strong crimp. I crimp to where I can just barely start to see a crimp, or where its just starting to almost crimp the whole of the mouth, and then add a teensy touch more (for 9mm). But for me, this is very hard to do consistently with range brass.

Im pretty sure your gun, and those next to you, will be just fine though.
 
I am in no means picking on you but it sounds like you might be adjusting the seat/crimp die incorrectly. It's very easy when told how.

1. Place a case in the shell holder.
2. Throw the handle oo the case it at it's highest point.
3. Screw the seat/crimp die in until it touches the case mouth and then back off slightly so the die is not touching the case.
4. Place a bullet on top of the case and adjust the the bullet seater until you achieve the desired bullet depth.
5. Back the seating adjustment way off so it won't touch the bullet when you turn the die in.
6. Turn the die body down until you get the desired crimp.
7. With the case fully in the die turn the bullet seat adjustment down until it's firmly against the properly seated bullet.
8. Run a dummy round or two through the adjusted die and see it everything is to your liking.

Done deal... I hope I explained that well enough. It's hard to break it down into words when you usually just do it on the press.
I'm sure I will be corrected shortly if I did goof-up. lol
 
As far as the line on the case, if you look in some 9mm cases they may have a little "ridge" to prevent bullet setback the "line" makes the ridge. No problem unless you have long bullets and/or are seating deep.

As far as the load goes I use 3.7gr of Bullseye with 125 MBC lead cones. Functions my 9s (Sig P226, XD Subcompact, Taraus PT99, Springfiled 1911(yes in 9mm)) fine. Soft, Shots well. (prefer Universal Clays or 231 for light to medium 9 loads with 125s)

Are you weighing the charge or just going by what Lee says a disk will throw? (not always, but usually they throw lighter than whats listed)
The .40 disk gives me about 3.7gr, the .43 about 4gr. If you 3.6s are to light you might want to try 3.9 or 4 with 115s. The .46 disk throws about 4.3 - 4.4 grns for me.

Be careful
and Enjoy!!!!:)

PS:Some people hate the factory crimp die but I like it if it is used lightly.
 
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Lots of good advice already posted by others, but I do have one concern.
Did you re-use the 5-10 cases that you pulled the bullets from, and if so, did you resize them before you seated another bullet?

As has already been mentioned, the crimp on a straight wall*, rimless pistol cartridge doesn't really hold the bullet in place, the tension of the case neck against the bullet does.

If you pull a bullet and then fail to resize the case before seating another, you'll probably have inadequate case neck tension to prevent bullet setback as the round is slammed into the feed ramp and chamber.

The 9mm works at fairly high pressures and since the case is so small, even a tenth of an inch of bullet setback can raise pressures drastically.

You probably already knew all this, but I figure it never hurts to make sure. :)


* I KNOW 9mm is tapered, but the principle is the same.
 
Yes, I de-primed/resized the cases prior to reloading them. Thanks for pointing that out though. I very well may have simply recharged the case and seated a bullet if I had thought of it. Thankfully I did not. :)

Dudedog, I am weighing the charge on Frankfurt Arsenal's digital scale. Right now I believe I am using the .40 disk. Thanks for the info on the other load weights. Hopefully that will save a bit of experimenting in the future.
 
Originally posted by: WolverineFury
Yes, I de-primed/resized the cases prior to reloading them.
Click to expand...
OHMYGOD!YOUDEPRIMEDLIVEPRIMERS!AREYOUSTILLALIVE?

Just kidding, I've done it a number of times myself. :D

I've had good luck reusing the pulled primers, I just make sure to use 'em only in practice ammo.

Be aware that you can simply remove your decapping stem and leave the old primers in place when you resize, just make sure you don't get any lube on 'em.

If you're working with bottleneck cases, you need to leave the stem and resizing ball in place, but most die sets (aside from Lee) will allow you to remove just the decapping pin.

I do that a lot when resizing Berdan cases.

Good luck and safe shooting!
 
Lesson Learned:

Reefinmike said:
powder charge-You will see a min/max charge. start at the minimum, load 10 rounds, and go up .2-.3gr loading 10 rounds of each until you reach max. Then test these at the range and see what one shoots best for you. once you find a good load, then load up a box of 50.
Click to expand...

...The rounds I loaded up will barely cycle (read: stovepipes and short-strokes) my G17, and short strokes every time in my P07, though it's strong enough to reset the hammer.

I think I'm going to load ten rounds with a charge of 4.0 and ten with a charge of 4.3, and see if I get better results.
 
I'm sure you already know this, but bullseye isn't the best powder for 9mm and data is pretty scarce. my lee manual only has bullseye data for 115gr xtp hollow points(4.1-4.7). alliants website is no help. A quick google search shows people loading up to about 5.0gr.

I would probably load up some 4.5-4.6gr as well to try out.
 
I'm pretty sure that the Speer TMJ's you're loading are like Speer's Gold Dots and DeepCurls regarding load data. Speer advises that you use only data developed for those specific bullets when loading them.

Most of the max loads for those bullet types seem a bit lighter than those for standard jacketed projectiles. I guess that makes sense since they're actually plated bullets (even though Speer never uses the "P" word to describe them).

Proceed cautiously, particularly with a fast powder like Bullseye in that little case.
 
Did you weigh the charges or are you going by what is supposed to be thrown?

3.6 with jacketed 115s may be to light as I mentioned earlier. I would bump it up to 4.0 grains.

L49 shows Bullseye 3.5 to 4.8 QAL 1.09 with a 115t HP
 
Huh? There is LOTS of data for Bullseye and 9mm. Check reputable load manuals like Speer and Lyman and others. Many loads for all common bullet weights. Bullseye is my powder of choice for 9mm. Works great!
 
I'm weighing each individual charge by putting the case on the scale, zeroing the scale, charging the case, and then putting the charged case back on the scale.

Here's a question. If I seated the bullet at say an OAL of 1.090 (instead of 1.150) and stuck with the original load data (in post #1). What effect would this have? It's my understanding that a deeper seating will cause higher pressures so would that result in rounds that would potentially cycle more reliably? (Of course this is simply a hypothetical situation, I'm not just going to begin arbitrarily changing factors.)
 
Yes, I believe in theory you would get higher pressures seating deeper. Enough to circumvent your cycling issues for that load, or to be dangerous? I don't know.
Some people are in the camp (especially for 9mm) that believe seating deeper GREATLY increases pressure and can get you in trouble real quick.. (Im referring to the Speer manual's comments here)

But for some reason, Im skeptical. Makes perfect sense that pressure (and velocity?) would increase, but I feel like it may be overstated to certain degree. Maybe someone will enlighten me here (with some proof that you get more than a moderate bump in pressure and velocity).

It sounds a bit like you may decide to squish those bullets further into the case instead of pulling them, so I should mention that Ive seen our good friend and handloader extraordinaire Mr RC Model post that "the squish" is not a very good way to address cycling problems. Hope I didn't quote him out of context there, but Im pretty sure that was the gist of it- ie: don't do it.
 
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