Rebuffed scammers call the law on victims

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Law Enforcement may enter without a warrant or permission If "exigent circumstances " exist, but the officer must be able to prove such. If the homeowner answers the door and everything seems fine, there is no justification to enter. If the officer hears or sees evidence of a life threatening offense, ex..screaming for help, he may be able to prove that he needed to enter.

Most officers are great and use common sense, but there are a few bad apples that abuse their authority. Denial of entrance is not an admission or implication of guilt. You are exercising your rights as a citizen.
 
Call the police and tell them there's a whole gang of "men with guns" wearing masks and carrying "assault weapons" and entry tools at your door and you're in fear for your life.:scrutiny: "Exigent circumstances? Yeah, I got your exigent circumstances right here buddy.
 
We're playing around with a hypothetical, instead of dealing with a reality.

Scam = Don't participate. Your first line of defense is to understand who is calling and respond promptly.

How many robocalls do we get every year where you can hear the electronic switching hooking up the next available operator? I hang up right there. No live person = hang up.

If they get past that and start in on the script, I start talking simultaneously and just say no thanks - and hang up.

If they get past that because they were an actual live person who was interacting - not reading a script - I respond politely, refuse, and hang up.

It's the people who want to GET EVEN who escalate the situation. They aren't swatting hangups - you had to go out of your way to play them and make the situation worse.

The rule with any phone call, now, in the modern age, is that if you can't ID the caller up front in the first 10 seconds - HANG UP.

I learned this because I DID put my cell phone on the no call list, and within 6 weeks was receiving calls repeatedly from all over the United States from bill collectors who had no background intent - ie nothing to go on. Except - I was on the no call list - so they called.

The "who called me" websites generally track down the location of the number and who's originating it. I was even getting called from some in my home town - the number was apparently popping up all over. They never asked for me personally, and that is the trend, harassment calling.

I dropped that number and didn't register the next phone, voila, instead of blocking four dozen numbers repeatedly ringing me, I went to three misdialed numbers in a year.

Congress is doing nothing about it - you have to protect yourself. DON'T ANSWER UNKNOWN NUMBERS, DON'T ENGAGE, HANG UP.

If the cops do show up, the first thing out of your mouth should be "I was just called on the phone by an IRS scammer" or whatever occurred. And as others have said, don't let them in.

Same tactic. Don't answer the door, don't engage, keep the door closed. Dial 911 yourself. Tell them.

The cops are the ones in the middle, as this phenomenon expands there will be a serious look into finding and punishing swatter's. Unfortunately, due to the American way of doing nothing about it until someone dies from it - somebody will die first. Then everyone will cluck their tongue and wonder how did that happen, we need to do something about it.

Until then - don't answer the phone in the first place. If you can't recognize the caller in the first ten seconds, hang up.

Speculation about how you are going to escalate the situation to deadly force isn't going to help in a court of law. Don't answer, don't engage, hang up.

You have to ask if some people are just creating the situation.
 
I have received several of these "IRS scam" calls from India. I've also received the "Microsoft technical support scam" calls from India.

I immediately recognize these for what they are, and cut them off.

In one case, the "IRS" scammer became quite abusive and vindictive. He called me back and said the sheriff was on his way to arrest me or even kill me. I didn't take his threats seriously.

After reading this thread, maybe I should take such threats seriously. That Indian scammer could easily have called my local police, claimed there was "a man with a gun" at my address, and prompted them to send out the SWAT team.

Since these scammers are in India, they're beyond the reach of U.S. law enforcement. And they've perfected the art of spoofing telephone numbers. It's possible that they could call my local police from what would appear to be my own telephone number!

This is a problem that has to be addressed by the police dispatching system, or we could start having innocent people getting hurt.

In the meantime, I would suggest that people getting these scam telephone calls not try to insult, provoke, or "get inside the heads" of the scammers. Just hang up on them, or don't answer the phone to begin with.
 
Deanimator wrote:

NEVER voluntarily admit police whom YOU didn't call, without a warrant.

Don't resist, but NEVER consent.

On the other hand, it's not wise to needlessly set up an adversarial relationship with the police. This draws attention to yourself in a negative way. At least try to project an aura of cooperation. You never know when you yourself might need them later. (That's assuming you have nothing to hide in the first place.)
 
You do not have to be confrontational to refuse police access to the home. Very politely say no. If they go in anyway, remind them politely that they are searching without a warrant or just cause. As soon as they are gone, call your lawyer.
 
Deanimator wrote:



On the other hand, it's not wise to needlessly set up an adversarial relationship with the police. This draws attention to yourself in a negative way. At least try to project an aura of cooperation. You never know when you yourself might need them later. (That's assuming you have nothing to hide in the first place.)

disagree very much with this.

1) People shouldn't ignore their rights because they are scared of the police
2) The "nothing to hide" mentality is a very vexing argument in the trends which are eroding our rights, most especially our right to privacy.
 
I have found that if you pick up the phone and don't say anything, the robot usually cuts off without starting its spiel. It seems to need a reply to trigger the recording.
Human boiler room callers, just hang up.
 
Jim Watson

That's typically my experience too. If a call comes in and it's a number I don't recognize and all I hear is some automated noise in the background, I don't say a thing and simply hang up.I would have to agree with the premise that your spoken response probably activates some system on the other end to start the sales pitch.
 
I simply screen my calls. If I dont recognize the number or if they dont leave a message, they dont need to talk to me. As for officers showing up at my doorstep, I'd be polite and give them any information I can. I would not consent to any search/entry. Unless the officers have a major attitude (in which case they are likely to do what they want anyway), there's no reason to get your back all ruffled up at them. They dont want to be there either, make it easy for them. Its a crappy job.
 
there is something basically wrong here. The police 911 operator has the caller ID of the person who is calling. The police also have a reverse phone directory that instantly tells them the address of caller ID party. It's as close as her keyboard.
Why would the police, upon finding they were on a wild goose chase, not send the cops to the place where the call originated? W@hy would the cops not smell a rat if the call originated from a place far from the fake crime?
Go figure.
 
How many of us call another number only to hear someone pick up and then say nothing?

Common telephone courtesy is to announce who is answering. No problem if it's a robodialer - you hear the clicks, hang up.

Of course, if you have caller ID - why answer? We recently flipped ATT - again - and they signed us up for better service. You have to manage them or their DSL keeps getting worse. This time we got a new modem, UPS, and they hooked up the answering telephone to their Caller ID - ring ring the phone starts talking and says the name of the listed owner in their directory.

My children get announced, the dentist gets announced, the "unavailable" don't get answered. Period. People dialing from a cell or land line who mask the number don't get thru to us - because we don't answer.

I've had "unavailable" dial every day at the same time in the morning for a week - and then, it stops.

Same with the cell phone at work. It's on vibrate, I cannot answer or I could get a writeup. Management gets to answer all day long, clock punchers get fired for it. Not wanting to endanger my job - don't answer. Later I discover that it's a wrong number, or, the doctor's office reminding me of an appointment I already know about, or - tada - a robocaller.

It's YOUR phone, talk to who you want, but you do NOT have to answer any Tom, Dick, or Harry who just happens to ring your phone. You are under no obligation whatsoever to answer it. Let the thing ring.

Free yourself from the shackles of the "leash" and your life will be easier. And it will still go on, regardless.

PS just wait until they start sending texts that eat up your minutes with junk messages, like the days when you'd come to work and find the fax machine out of paper with a ream of sales notices falling out of the basket. We haven't scratched the surface of how to abuse cell phones yet.
 
there is something basically wrong here. The police 911 operator has the caller ID of the person who is calling. The police also have a reverse phone directory that instantly tells them the address of caller ID party. It's as close as her keyboard.
Why would the police, upon finding they were on a wild goose chase, not send the cops to the place where the call originated? W@hy would the cops not smell a rat if the call originated from a place far from the fake crime?
Go figure.

Caller ID can be spoofed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caller_ID_spoofing
 
My wife received the same phone call several weeks back from someone claiming to be from the IRS,and she needed to send money right away,as a warrant had been issued for her arrest. She was nearly in a panic and asked me to speak with the "agent." I asked him what name was on his file,and what was her social security number. He could'nt answer and hung up on me. Sounded like an western African accent,very strong. I'm thinking he was overseas,maybe Liberia, and if so,our law enforcement won't bother with him. The cops never showed up,but if they did,no warrant,no entry,with all due respect given.
 
The big problem is the inability of phone companies to actually trace calls since the advent of spoofed phone calls generated over the internet. Check out this web page and consider how it's being abused.

https://www.spooftel.com/freecall/

The scammer can make it appear he is calling from the house next door to yours. The police see his caller ID info as being right next to you. So they take the complaint about the "man with a gun" seriously.

This is a serious problem. Sales calls completely disappeared until this starting taking place. The sellers / scammers don't even have to bother with using a spoofed call number because they know the LEO is not able to enforce the law and they have essentially given up.

Not only can the scammers call saying you have a gun, they can say you have fired the gun into their home repeatedly. They might even fake the sound of gunfire. If that happens forget not letting the LEO's into your house. They are going to knock down your door and stick an AR in your ear and a boot on your neck.

We need to demand that something be done about this type of calling. There has to be a method of making sure a call comes from an actual phone that can be traced instead of the man on the moon. If you notice, the "card services" calls always have a different phone number listed on your called ID. They were among the first and the worst to use spoofing. There's really no end to the foul deeds that can be done using this technology. The phone companies are going to have to spring for new equipment that monitors whether calls come from the internet or not. I know hackers are hard to stay ahead of but it has to be done. The consequences are too bad not to. Imagine someone calling the cops telling them you have their 5 year old daughter inside your house and you have a gun. They WILL knock down your door. And people sometimes die from such treatment by the LEO's.

I've had scammers set their phones to call my house a dozen times a day at all hours because I played them on that Microsoft calling scam. I let them go on for about 20 minutes while I acted like a moron with access to a credit card. They didn't like it. And I've heard tales of online scammers going as far as sending people to houses to get even with anyone messing with their scam. The Nigerian scammers are particularly nasty. Their government totally encourages them to scam people. They fear nothing and they have resources. Those scams work or they wouldn't keep doing it and that means they have money for all sorts of things including physical confrontations with people who turn the tables on them. Scammers are scum so they should be feared. They can and do hurt people at times.

We need to lean on the government to crack down on this stuff again. It was great when I didn't get 15 fake calls a day. I've blocked a lot of the calls now but I still get a bunch of calls a day. And the stakes get higher all the time.
 
The big problem is the inability of phone companies to actually trace calls since the advent of spoofed phone calls generated over the internet. Check out this web page and consider how it's being abused.

https://www.spooftel.com/freecall/ <<<< depending on your browser, find the lock and you can lots of info.

...

Looking at it from an HTTPS perspective, this is totally pathetic... considering that they have a signed HTTPS name verified by "GlobalSign nv-sa". This organization, GlobalSign, is supposed to be a CA (certificate authority). In essence, it legitimizes a business whose goal is deceit. That is what is mind boggling.

chuck
 
If it's a number I don't recognize I answer the phone "Homestead militia, second floor armory. How can I help you? If they insist on talking, I talk over them to my imagery LT. and and tell him to make sure the night vision gear is ready. Hardly ever get a call back.
 
On the other hand, it's not wise to needlessly set up an adversarial relationship with the police. This draws attention to yourself in a negative way. At least try to project an aura of cooperation. You never know when you yourself might need them later. (That's assuming you have nothing to hide in the first place.)
The relationship is INHERENTLY adversarial.

"Attention" means less than nothing to me. Certainly FAR less than my 4th and 5th Amendment rights.

The only "aura" I have any intention of "projecting" is one of somebody who obeys the law, and who DEMANDS that the police do likewise.

There is literally NOTHING I would EVER need of the police for which I would trade a SINGLE right.

Memorize:
  1. Police have no legal duty to protect individuals.
  2. Police have no legal liability when they fail to protect individuals.
  3. Police have virtually no physical ability to protect individuals.
Unless you have police or private bodyguards, in virtually every instance of immediate threat of deadly force attack, you will either protect YOURSELF or you will not be protected AT ALL.

I'm not ever going to trade my 4th or 5th Amendment rights for the ILLUSION of protection.
 
Homestead militia, second floor armory. How can I help you?

LOL I love scamming the scammers even if it's just to make them look stupid. I really had a few of them going with the "I'm detective Brown and there was murder here at this site last night. How do you know the deceased? Please provide your name and address. We may need you to tesitfy. What's that? That sounds like a likely story that you're just a salesman. I'm going to have to trace this call and send a few of my men there to check out your story.

You can really get 'em going sometimes.
 
Regarding unwanted phone calls; i.e., "robocalls," there is a service at nomorobo.com that can help with home phones but not usually with cell phones. The service is free. When calls come in from telemarketers, the service recognizes the number and shuts it down after 1 or 2 rings. The service isn't perfect but it has cut WAY down on the number of robocalls my wife and I were receiving.
If you are using an Android phone, check out the free app Mr. Number. The performers largely the same functions and has all but eliminated the scam calls and robocalls for me.
 
http://www.timesnews.net/article/9087820/irs-scammer-makes-bogus-911-report-of-hawkins-county-gunmen
Jeff Bobo,
"Police say IRS scam has a new twist",
"IRS scammer makes bogus 911 report of Hawkins County gunmen",
Kingsport Times-News, 22 May 2015.

7pm Wed 20 May 2015 a Hawkins County woman received a scam IRS call from a foreign-sounding man. A foreign accented woman working with the scammer also made a bogus 911 call to the [strike]sheriff's department[/strike] County Central Dispatch reporting a home invasion at the woman's home by two men with AK47s.

When [strike]deputies[/strike] Church Hill PD officers arrived at the Hawkins County woman's home, she was still on the phone with the scammer. An officer attempted to speak with the caller who hung up. Then a foreign accented man called dispatch demanding to know why police were sent to his house. The scam callers used "spoofing" to disguise the source of their calls.

The goal apparently is to create a situation where officers arrive at a residence expecting armed home invaders and the home residents get angry at officers appearing to arrest them for the IRS over BS.
 
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there is something basically wrong here. The police 911 operator has the caller ID of the person who is calling. The police also have a reverse phone directory that instantly tells them the address of caller ID party. It's as close as her keyboard.
Why would the police, upon finding they were on a wild goose chase, not send the cops to the place where the call originated? W@hy would the cops not smell a rat if the call originated from a place far from the fake crime?
Go figure.


Two reasons
#1 telemarketers and scammers have a vested interest in hiding their identity in general, and often have software and reroutings to make even the average 911 center's ability to successfully trace back to them unlikely.

#2 what does the local PD on the east coast do when the call originated on the west coast, or Canada, or Mexico, or someplace in southeast Asia?
 
"there is something basically wrong here. The police 911 operator has the caller ID of the person who is calling."

In the Hawkins County TN case, Church Hill PD Chief Mark Johnson said: "The (foreign) female provided her number as the victim's number and the victim's number showed up on [Hawkin's County] Central's caller ID system."

These spoofing programs are sophisticated. They are used by drug dealers, blackmailers, extortionists, conspirators to hide their ID and some folks defend these programs in the name of "right to privacy"; ie, their right to be able to make calls without being identified.

----------------------------------------------

BTW 8:18pm I received a call from 305-704-9967 and thinking it may have been related to my late wife's medical bills answered reluctantly (even though I think I have all those numbers named in my phone's contact list). It was a debit card scam (they want you to give them your account info so they can reactivate your card, yeah, sure). The bank or credit union do not do things like that by phone.

The IRS does not call like that either.

SWAT hoaxers _do_ want you to mount the barricade yelling "Attica! Attica! Attica!" at the police; they do it hoping to provoke trouble. Don't play that game either.
 
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I've had one of these swat scammers. Unfortunately for them - part of my job is maintaining the 911 call center for my county. It's a fairly small center, and all the operators know my home number since I'm always on call. Apparently the individual on the other end got quite the interesting conversation when they spoofed my number.

Had another call some time back threaten me as well from a craigslist scam. knew it was a scam from the beginning, so the address I gave him to meet the "courier" was the address across from county jail, where I had a unmarked waiting.
 
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