Do You Carry Concealed into your Church?

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No. SC's law that you need pastoral permission is stupid. Especially because any church that's Christian that is banning guns hasn't read their Bible where Jesus told the disciples to bring swords to the garden of Gethsemane.

It needs to be like Florida: you don't need their permission, you just carry.

Besides, it's stupid to pray to a Deity to keep you safe when you then turn around and do nothing about it. It's like the whole "Jesus take the wheel" thing: it's illogical. I'm pretty sure Jesus would have me actually DO something about what I'm praying about, not just expect him to do everything while I sit and do nothing.
 
The idea that the place of worship is holy, it is an insult to the deity, the deity will protect you, if you die you will go to heaven - your killer goes to hell, etc. - were all played by antigun forces to institute religious bans. The bans were designed to make carry a pain (go to leave the gun in the car) and thus reduce carrying.

Some fell for it.

State bans specifically for religious places are clearly unconstitutional as they put a condition on worship that is not driven by clear public, technical safety needs. A general ability to ban (like a business) is reasonable. But saying a religious place is BANNED is not acceptable.
 
Yeah, cause persecuting Christians is a new thing?

Gun free zones are targeted victim zones. If they notice my CCW and don't like it, they're welcome to ask me to leave.

Trespassing and accidentally being in a gun free zone while carrying are ticky tak penalties. I'd rather take the chance being caught armed, then being caught unarmed. Chances are if they see your CCW, you might get lumped in with these weirdos shooting up churches. So conceal deep.
 
Indeed. According to CNN, it was a Glock 41.

The question is, how'd he get it, did he buy it when he has a felony charge against him? Or, because he's a criminal (and potential felon prior to this egregious act) did he break the law and obtain the gun illegally?

Never mind, I just read the article. He bought the gun so apparently, his drug possession charges had no affect in stopping the purchase.
 
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Cee Zee:

You have helped clarify a practical reminder from this tragedy.
Politicians look forward to exploiting these events.

If they weren't so shameless, they would not immediately comment on "gun" this or that.
 
If they weren't so shameless, they would not immediately comment on "gun" this or that.

So true. A politician and a tv camera is a deadly combination. Maybe we should make that illegal.
 
Each incident, especially when it has a direct or exploitable racial component will be seized upon by the race baiters and push us ever closer to the point at which the gov. decides it must step in to right the wrongs be they real or just perceived.
When I look at how the MSM, politicians of both major parties, academia, even the military seem to be congealing into one monolithic mass of political correctness it is hard to keep the tinfoil in the drawer. Wonder who the puppet master really is?
I feel gun control has almost taken a back seat to most of their movement and they are content to squeeze in and choke us out so we just die on the vine.
 
Shanghai McCoy said:
I fear that this sad event will have the same results in our country as the shootings at Dunblane had in the UK.

Nothing to fear. That will not happen. Sandy Hook was much, much worse . We are not the U.K. or Australia. The pro 2A movement will just get stronger. Laws prohibiting church carry will start to disappear in many states.

You can take that to Vegas. You too, X-Rap. :)
 
You can take that to Vegas.

We do have the momentum right now. It could change but absent a victory by another gun grabber in 2016 I don't think we have a lot to worry about. Now the stuff about the holy PC being shoved down our throat is plenty real. It happens every day but this is a gun board so...
 
It happens every day but this is a gun board so...

We just keep repeating more guns, less crime. Gun homicides down from 9.6 per 100,000 in 1993 to 4.5 in 2013. Gun related injuries down about the same. More than half.

And all of this with more than twice the number of guns in Americans' hands. :what:

This is the truth. this is our mantra. And if Puerto Rico, of all places, can go permitless (Constitutional Carry) yesterday,all things are certainly possible! :cool:
 
This is the truth. this is our mantra.

We certainly aren't out of the fight when it comes to guns. But when the gubmit tries to tell churches they MUST marry gays there will be trouble. That's what I meant was fodder for another board. But like Limbaugh says, the whole reason for the second amendment is to make sure the government doesn't forget the first amendment. Every day I hear some atrocious behavior by the forces of PC. It's a monster of biblical proportions. For example this was in the headlines today:

Court orders feds to find and return deported mother and daughter from Guatemala


http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2015/06/19/270649/court-orders-feds-to-find-and.html#storylink=cpy

The laws on illegal immigration are just being tossed out like the newspaper from the bottom of the birdcage. Every job taken by an illegal is a job that a citizen should have gotten. It's no wonder the unemployment rate is a joke. I have family members directly impacted by such things. Heck it was tough competition for construction jobs when I was just out of college and looking for any work I could find. That was back in 1980. I worked for a crew that was 95% Hispanic back then. I worked for another crew that was 100% Hispanic except for me. The boss kept telling me white people wouldn't work until I worked his little cousins under the table. He begged me to go on the road with them but I had another option by then. I didn't need to travel to make a decent living at least not for a while.
 
In VA you have to have permission to carry into a place of worship during services. Luckily, my Pastor is my shootin buddy. I told him I was gonna start carrying, he said OK, but 1 favor... Keep it concealed well so nobody else knew. I said Fair enough.
 
With the ambiguous nature of these "by permission only" laws does one carry a signed piece of paper or is verbal permission ok. Does permission come from the Board, Pastor, or Congregation?
I can see things going poorly if the duty resides solely with that of the Pastor and even worse if it is only a verbal approval and thing go bad in an incident.
 
Yes, I do and I will continue to do so. Worshipping my God should not make me or my family vulnerable from the predations of others.

Until free agency of man is revoked (it won't) and evil is bound, (we're not there yet) men will continue to commit all manner of depravities. I will carry despite any notions of "holy ground" or any other of such rot.
 
With the ambiguous nature of these "by permission only" laws does one carry a signed piece of paper or is verbal permission ok. Does permission come from the Board, Pastor, or Congregation?
I can see things going poorly if the duty resides solely with that of the Pastor and even worse if it is only a verbal approval and thing go bad in an incident.
Yeah, what I hear you saying is, if you only have this "buddy okay" from that preacher, and he gets killed in an incident where you have to clear leather, what keeps you out of a criminal charge?

Me's curious too.
In VA you have to have permission- Pastor is my shootin buddy. I told him I was gonna-
Is that how VA defines "permission"? You just tell a guy who works there that you're gonna do it?
 
Ohio has a "with permission" provision in the law for places of worship. We covered that with a letter on church letterhead and signed by the pastor and deacon board. The letter is addressed to me specifically and stays tucked inside the front of my Bible.

Our church policy is don't actively advertise that we allow CCW, but when someone asks, they are required to meet with the church security team, briefed on the plan in place and then given a letter of permission. Only other requirement is a valid CCW permit. The letter states if the CCW expires or is revoked (never been an issue), the letter is invalid.

While the law does technically allow verbal permission, a written letter is black and white, not subject to "he said, she said" later.
 
With the ambiguous nature of these "by permission only" laws does one carry a signed piece of paper or is verbal permission ok. Does permission come from the Board, Pastor, or Congregation?
I can see things going poorly if the duty resides solely with that of the Pastor and even worse if it is only a verbal approval and thing go bad in an incident.
In my church, the permission to cc is kept by the head administrator and he's also an elder, and it is a peace of paper signed by him, saying I have permission to cc. Again, this is for my protection from the state.
 
Same as a post office, is that an Indiana thing because the post office is not a prohibited carry location in Louisville. If it were under our Constitution it would have to have signage up to that effect.........now in Kentucky in order to carry in church, you need permission from the pastor, which they will never give as they have their own security service. As a former special ops guy, I cringe at some of their tactics........but they are church members volunteering! I occasionally will forget my little ankle holster is on my ankle and such but usually I leave it in the gun safe drawer under a seat!
 
the post office is not a prohibited carry location in Louisville

I'm pretty sure there's a federal law against carrying in a post office. I don't see how state laws get around that but then again some states allow pot smoking. That's against federal law too. I'm all for taking power away from the feds but I'd be hesitant to carry in a post office anywhere. They play hard ball as in 10 years in a federal playpen.
 
Yah, you can't carry in the local post office because that's a Federal institution and under Federal jurisdiction. There's also a term called "going postal". If there's one place where we really should be allowed to carry, it's the post office. But big fed gotta be big fed.
 
They're absolutely right. Here's a link to a Fifth Circuit decision upholding the conviction of a Mr. Dorosan for carrying on Postal Service property.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USCtofAppealsPostOfficeCarry.pdf

State law means nothing, it's federal. The weed smoking is sorta the same thing. While the states have decided to allow it, there's nothing stopping the feds from prosecuting pot smokers.
 
I knew there was a law against carrying on postal property. I was just trying to be gentle about saying it. My wife is a postmaster. For years I worked at the post office myself until I left and became a computer consultant. I know better than to leave a gun in the truck before my wife goes to work. She could lose her pension.
 
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