Now we look incompetent

JR47 said:

Listen to yourselves. You're easily as bad as anything Bloomberg sponsored propagandists ever spewed. Want to bet that there aren't anti-gunners trolling these very pages, looking for such feeble-minded talk? Want to see your vitriol spread across anti-gun pages, proving that "even gun owners think this is dangerous".

Walt Kelly, in that Pogo strip was absolutely correct. "We have met the enemy, and HE is US" applies oh so well here. So does a Forest Gump quote. "Stupid is as stupid does."

Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

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You think the criticism of the action is worse than the action itself?

Fascinating.

Forgot to quote. Response to Post #25

Probably over 26" OAL which makes it a "Firearm" not an AOW.

My questions are "is he sleeping?" and "Where is his aiming device?"

Mike

The bigger issues is that his finger appears to be resting on the trigger. No excuse for that.

Yeah, I thought you couldn't put a forward grip on a pistol. Also his finger looks like it is on the trigger...

blahpony said:

"Can I look at your gun?"

"No"

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Right!

Orrr...if the gun is unloaded, and the handler refuses a request to return the gun, draw the back-up, and: "This one is loaded, and that one is not; give it back"!

"Can I look at your gun?"

"Sure, here it is, in my hands. You look with your eyes, not your fingers."

The day after the Chattanooga incident, a recruiter in Athens, Ga. shot himself in the thigh. Under the exact same "show me your gun" scenario, with another recruiter.

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Here is the link...

http://www.cbs46.com/story/29573194/man-accidentally-shoots-self-at-military-recruiting-office

Firearm safety needs to be taught in grade school.

I applaud the IDEA but see no way to carry it out effectively. The guy in the Crocs standing at the front door will simply be the first to get shot if an armed killer shows up.
Average citizens with a gun are not trained to protect anything, except possibly themselves. They are more likely to blow off their own foot than actually stop/impede a terrorist attack.

As with so many other "initiatives" the heart is in the right place but execution is lacking.

lol, so true. At least he brought out the como crocs for guard duty. That's a clear sign he is taking the job seriously.

As with so many other "initiatives" the heart is in the right place but execution is lacking.

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My thoughts exactly. Im sure these guys have good intentions... but I dont see any good coming from it - and frankly I doubt if its much deterrent.

The "other side" already sees gun owners in general as wanna be soldiers & extremists who have fantasies about SHTF or whatever.... then we (yes, generalizing, but lets be honest, thats what others do) cant wait to rush out and "protect" the military, wearing a wide array of uniform- everything from the "I just rolled out of bed in my PJs and couldnt even dream of passing a PFT" to the mall ninja, "ready for battle" look (hopefully some dress respectably in between, wearing say, jeans and a nice shirt or similar).

Then add an ND on top of it... :banghead:.... Sure isnt doing the responsible gun owners, hopefully the majority of us, any favors.

Well it's bound to happen to somebody.

Thankfully I am not afraid of terrorists enough to patrol outside of a recruiting center to defend the government from them.

Well it's bound to happen to somebody.

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But it happened almost immediately...twice.

No law against being an idiot and possesing a firearm.

herrwalther said:

I knew this type of incident would happen. I have been against civilians "defending" military posts from the start. The rest I could say about that isn't very high road so I will leave it to myself. Thankfully no one was injured.

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Ditto on both your comments.

Two things,

First, the guy with the ND is getting crushed, and rightfully so. However, he should get some credit for following the single most important role of firearms safety...don't point it at anyone. Probably saved a life in this circumstance.

Second, there seems to be some support for arming military members. There is a long standing tradition in this country that dictates the military is not armed on US soil in peace time. Its symbolic of the founding fathers wish that the government not be a threat to the people. I trust and honor the men and women who serve, but im not prepared to see armed soldiers on the street corners. Thoughts?

Miky said:

Two things,

First, the guy with the ND is getting crushed, and rightfully so. However, he should get some credit for following the single most important role of firearms safety...don't point it at anyone. Probably saved a life in this circumstance.

Second, there seems to be some support for arming military members. There is a long standing tradition in this country that dictates the military is not armed on US soil in peace time. Its symbolic of the founding fathers wish that the government not be a threat to the people. I trust and honor the men and women who serve, but im not prepared to see armed soldiers on the street corners. Thoughts?

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That worked when the enemy didn't live among us.

the pictures I saw online about those "guards" didn't look good.... posing, bogger finger inside the trigger guard, camo clothing and the mall-ninja look. Aside from that: who has time to sit in a camping chair in the middle of a work-day (!) in front of a recruiting office?

"A standing Army" is something our forefathers warned about as previous experience governed by other types of State used them to oppress the citizen. So we chartered our Armed Forces to only have authority outside the United States.

Here at home we developed the idea of an UNARMED police force who summoned the PEOPLE to help arrest those seen committing crimes. So - whether I like it or not - there is a historical precedent for the PEOPLE to be armed and do the dirty work. That was the reality of the day -

Fast forward to now, we have a "standing Army" with the LEO's and a unarmed Army - but cops can't be everywhere. The People tho, can be, it's their right, and the rights and duties of cops are based on the rights and duties of the People.

The "standing Army" has a restricted charter, and the LEO has one based off citizen's Rights.

If the People intend to make a public demonstration over protecting their own, we have to live with the results. We may not like the way they do it - and it certainly does NOT imply "WE look incompetent" but it certainly is giving some terrorists the giggles reading the breaking news.

Here's a quote I ran across today:

A superior pilot uses his superior judgment so that he doesn’t have to make a vulgar display of his superior skills.

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You have to have superior skills to even misuse them. Think twice about why you would even be standing in your crocs, in the open, and consider the tactical situation - which is not good.

As I said, it's basically standing in an open zone of crossfire. Aside from having a moment of glory and exercising some patriotic fervor, I see it as the same line of thought that another man had - he saw a man with a gun in a Walmart, and in the act of defending the shoppers, got shot in the back.

Ask your family if you can be spared for the rest of their life.

Most assess the risk and know that thousands of recruiting offices and Reserve Centers won't be attacked - if ever. It's basically a political stunt to show up armed as a show of support. THAT is why it's "not a good idea," and the mishandling of firearms in a show and tell session conducted at the gradeschool level of seriousness is why some shouldn't be involved.

Sorry it makes some of you look incompetent, but I'm not the one standing around in my camo crocs with my finger on the trigger inside a kill zone. I had to stand around in my boots with my gun holstered and check ID"s at a front gate. I'm familiar with how little the show of force really accomplishes - aside from increasing the risk on the participants.

Excellent Commentary Tirod.

Looks to me like his index finger is straight along the side of the receiver.

Mike

Actually, the military looks incompetent. Base security was lacking.

This whole tragic affair can be laid squarely on the military and lack of security at the base where it happened. We've known for awhile that troops in the US would become targets. I don't think anyone took it seriously until now.

The mall ninjas will be the first casualties in the next attack. I think I would at least invest in some body armor if I was going to stand a post.

Sergeant of the guard, post the mall ninja targets.

Jeff82 said:

That worked when the enemy didn't live among us.

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Good point Jeff.

Coal train, this didn't happen at a base. Base security doesn't apply at strip malls and reserve centers.

I was just throwing this together as one big military problem.

In all situations it involves the military. Even reserves are military as they can be called up to active duty any time and are on the military payroll.

All military personnel in the US are targets now thanks to sensational media coverage and lax military security measures.

I don't think it makes a lot of difference where this happened.

Thanks for correcting my error. The topic was the recruiters office and the mall ninjas.

Regarding the civilians posting at the recruiters office, well they can post anywhere they want I guess. Most of these guys never served and don't have enough training to make a difference.