Perhaps things aren't so bleak

nero45acp · May 13, 2004

Ever since 911 many people, including myself have been concerned about the radialization of the Islam and the potential for a long, drawn-out war of cultures. But after thinking about it for awhile, I've come the conclusion that this is probably a temporary or self-limiting phenomena.

Take Iran for example, twenty-five years ago that country fell under the control of fundamentalist Islamic revolutionaries. Today, the majority of that country's population are striving for less religous control, and more freedom. They got a taste of life under a repressive theocracy and are finding it unpalatable. Many young Iranians no longer see the United States as the "Great Satan", but as a potential ally. And while it may require a civil war, I believe that the current theocracy will be overthrown, and a more free, pro-western Iran will emerge. I suspect this may be a pattern that other countries falling under the influence of radical Islam will follow.

That doesn't mean things aren't going to be tough in the short-term. But I suspect we'll find a way through these troubled times. All cultures desire the freedom to chose their path, even if it means the occasional mis-step, (in the West we've gotten through inquisitions, witch trials, ect...) and a better life for their children.

Please do not infer that this post is a rationalization/excuse for murder, oppression or terrorism IT IS NOT!!

nero

HBK · May 13, 2004

I hope you're right nero. You give me a little hope with that assessment and I needed it because I've been fearing the worst.

thefitzvh · May 13, 2004

The terrorists will win this battle, because they've already weakened our resolve and succeeded in causing us to abandon our principles.

But you're right. They won't win the war. Oppression and tyranny have a long history of succeeding for a while, then getting obliterated. People will eventually figure out that maybe the Sheik isn't thinking about their best interests.

Thumper · May 13, 2004

Bleak?

Man...the future's so bright, we gotta wear shades (Sorry, Timbuk 3).

-America's enemies, both foreign and domestic, are sticking their necks out to be cut.

-Everybody, left and right, is looking at big government with a suspicious eye.

-We're winning the RKBA for the first time in my lifetime.

-Extreme polarization in the electorate means it's almost impossible for Washington to do anything.

Heck, I like it.

OF · May 13, 2004

Iran is a good example of a repressive islamo-fascist nation teetering on the edge of solving itself. If we succeed in putting Iraq together in any sort of upright fashion, look for Iran to be the first major win in the WOT.

Many young Iranians no longer see the United States as the "Great Satan", but as a potential ally.

This is exactly what 'drain the swamp' means in WOT terms.

- Gabe

Jim March · May 13, 2004

Welll...the thing to remember about Iran is that we really never should have had a problem with them. Persian culture has generally been pretty decent; their flavor of Islam has only very recently been radicalized and even then the radical influence isn't that widespread or deep. (As one example yes, we have one Shi'ite cleric in Iraq right now who's being a pain but he is NOT getting support from the rest. This isn't an isolated instance. Even the most out-there Shi'ites around (Hezballah<sp?>) thought the recent beheading was gonzo.)

We screwed up in Iran by supporting the Shah. *Huge* mistake. I think both sides (US/Iran) can back down from the dark days post-Shah (embassy thing) and eventually normalize relations. The civil rights situation within Iran is improving at a surprising rate; although they've got a ways to go they're already significantly ahead of Saudi Arabia.

(NOTE: we screwed up by supporting dictators all over the world, not just Iran. This problem is utterly unconnected with Islam of any flavor, or religion in general.)

The Saud/Wahhabi connection has been radicalized WAY longer, and it wasn't our fault at all. The Brits had a minor role back in Lawrence's day but even then, not like us and the Shah :barf:

.

Ktulu · May 13, 2004

Oppression and tyranny have a long history of succeeding for a while, then getting obliterated.

I don't want to be a "Debbie Downer" here but we may find the same is true for Freedom and Liberty.

Sam Adams · May 13, 2004

Jim

(NOTE: we screwed up by supporting dictators all over the world, not just Iran. This problem is utterly unconnected with Islam of any flavor, or religion in general.)

This is true, but to understand why is more important. We backed the Shah, Somoza I ("he may be a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch" - FDR) and Somoza II, Marcos and many others for one simple reason: they hated and fought Communists. To have let these folks, scumbags all, go down in flames when the Soviets were arming, training and financing the opposition would have been geopolitical suicide. To be sure, the short-term gain we realized by supporting these people had a big long-term cost (which we have been and continue to pay even now), but there was a good reason to support them (at least most of the time).

Lone_Gunman · May 13, 2004

Oppression and tyranny have a long history of succeeding for a while, then getting obliterated.

Yes, just like republics and democracies. More years of stable government have been provided by tyrannies than by republics and democracies.

Extreme polarization in the electorate means it's almost impossible for Washington to do anything.

So thats why in the last three years our goood Republican friends have passed such wonderful legislation as Campaign Finance Reform and Medicare Reform, two of the most sickening pieces of legislation in my lifetime?

Perhaps things aren't so bleak

nero45acp

Member

HBK

member

thefitzvh

Member

Thumper

Member

OF

Member

Jim March

Member

Ktulu

Member

Sam Adams

Member

Lone_Gunman

Member

Similar threads