It's a Fight for Survival -- Pull Out All Stops

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Press bias: Of the more "big time" media folks, direct questioning reveals that some 80%, mas o menos, vote Democrat.
Clear Channel controls over 50% of the nation's radio waves, they are *extremely* Republican.

The Fox channels are owned by News Corporation which also owns the NY Post and some other conservative outlets. News Corporation is owned by Rupert Murdoch, a former Australian who is *very* pro-Republican.

NBC is owned by General Electric. General Electric is the biggest corporation in the world. I promise you that the biggest corporation in the world is pro-Republican. In fact there was a scandal where the NBC chairman allowed one of Bush's cousins (who was working in the NBC control room) to call Florida early.

Obivously the alleged study you have cited is outdated.
Personal opinion, "sorta" verified by decades of observation: Those people who are inherently conservative by nature generally tend toward majoring in the sciences when in college. Those people who are inherently liberal by nature generally tend to major in the Liberal Arts curricula such as philosophy, psychology, languages and journalism.
I majored in Computer Science and Chemical Science in college. I'm definitely not a Republican. And creationists are extremely anti-science so they aren't going to study science either.

Conservatives tend to go into buisness, the military and religious studies - money, power and faith: anti-curiosity. Liberals tend towards science, art, languages, culture, and journalism: all curriculums for the curious.

Note that engineering tends to pick up both liberals and conservatives because it appeals to curiosity for liberals and money for conservatives.
1. Do you believe that the U.S. is threatened by a loosely-tied coalition of extremists who have a deep-rooted desire to punish and/or kill all those who don't follow their religion? If you don't believe the fight is serious or if you believe these extremists will just live and let live, I can understand why you disagee with any efforts to fight back.
Yup.
2. Are there specific events or actions that the United States should have done differently in the past that would have kept these extremists from hating and killing Americans? Please tell me what our country should have done differently.
Yup. Our foreign policy sucks. We need to quit with the arrogant foreign policy and the bullying and the might makes right and the back-room coups for the purpose of helping multinational corporations' profit margins. Our foreign policy needs to be revamped towards helping regular Americans, not the profits of various multinational corporations, imho.
3. Now that we are in a fight with extremists who's upbringing, culture, mythology and religion (at least THEIR view of their religion) all support the punishment and death of all who do not follow their religion, how do you suggest we win?
Iraq is unwinnable if nothing but force is used. Imho, the Roman Catholic Pope has a very well-thought out plan on what needs to be done at this point:
…
Pope John Paul II is expected to warn President George W. Bush when the two men meet on June 4 that his policy in Iraq is wrong and the actions of US troops are damaging efforts to bring religions closer together, a senior Vatican official said Thursday.

Cardinal Pio Laghi said the US-led occupation force in Iraq should be replaced by "a multinational presence which is not dominated by those who wanted and fought the war".

It was not enough for a military force in Iraq not to be under US command, "it must not even give the impression that it is", he said.

Laghi was the pope's envoy to Washington last year in a fruitless attempt to persuade Bush not to invade Iraq against the wishes of the majority of the United Nations and its 15-member Security Council.
…
http://iafrica.com/news/worldnews/322583.htm
 
w4rma:

Please do not try to twist my words. I write English fairly well, and I generally manage to say what I mean.
advocating blockading the Iraqi border and killing everyone still inside.
Please show me where I (or anyone) advocated blockading the Iraqi border and killing everyone still inside.

If you think that my reference to "scumvermin" was to the entire Iraqi populace, rather than to the terrorists who deserve the appellation, shame on you, your prejudices may be showing. I think what I had in mind was rather clear and self-explanatory:

Rules of engagement would be simple -- if it points a rifle, handgun, or RPG at any American asset, it gets destroyed. ALL weapons and ordnance encountered in the sweep get destroyed.
How do you get from strict self-defense to "killing everyone"?
 
For the average American

who gets his news from the Times, WaPo, Peter Jennings etc. to notice liberal bias would be like a fish feeling wet.
 
They know what sells.

"No, they're seriously corporate. (Look at their owners and advertisers for proof.)"

Corporate giants get to be that way because they know what sells. Non-sense sells. Hate sells. Gansta Rap [or is that Warp?] sells.

Rupert and the boys are like drug dealers who do not use drugs.

rr
 
It's a Fight for Survival -- Pull Out All Stops

2 Main Points then some vague metaphor on canine behavior...

1. Same can be said for BOTH Sides of the coin.

2. It might be a fight for survival if we were Israel. 5 million strong surrounded by 500 million who wish us dead.

But we're not Israel. We're currently the top of the dog pile, big and strong, sometimes slow and stupid, sometimes sly and cunning, healthy, well fed, tail wagging (mostly), got big teeth, cover ground quickly, recover almost immediately from little wounds here and there, some of which we don't even take note of...
But when a little yapping chihuahua kicks us in the junk in front of the world and causes us to lose FACE - honor - dignity, whatever you want to call it, as well as killing thousands ON OUR SOIL... anything that looks like, smells like or yaps like a junk kicking chihuahua (hereinafter called JKC) is bound to feel our pain 10 times over, 100 times over. If that Big Dog gets HIS WAY, there will be no JKC's left on the planet.

And whereas on one hand it's kind of ludicrous for the 'Big Dog' to go around snapping the necks of every JKC on the planet, or sitting at home waiting for the next one or two, and the next one or two, said Big Dog soon comes to another plan of attack as some of those little mothers can be real ankle biters (or junk kickers). Should You get a Pack of them surrounding you at home in your own kennel... lotsa bitten ankles result, maybe one or two or twenty more blows to the junk as well with MAYBE tens of thousands dead on our soil, you make yer call... that's why we're there.

It takes either a brave Big Dog to jump right into the middle of a pack of JKC's or a real stupid one.

Some here call him a brave, good, smart Big Dog; "Good Boy!."

Others here feel he's an idiot for trying and scold him unmercifully for misbehavin' cause this JKC isn't the same one that kicked us in the junk last week; "Bad Dog! What the Heck are you thinking Boy?"

Then there's them what debate the issues of all Chihuahuas, some lumping them all into vicious man-killers, others calling them sweet little wonderful animals; why, every home should have one.
Once in awhile the Big Dog makes a mess in his kennel in front of the whole world and whooboy look out. You'd think that was the very first time a Big Dog ever left a landmine on the front entry floor for all the world to see, so that becomes a heated discussion.

And what a treasure chest those home boy JKC's are guarding over yonder, eh? But they are a strange breed of dog, yipping in the streets, some long haired, some hairless, a teacup here and there a standard elsewhere. And they guard their treasures well my friend. Now we say we don't want their treasure outright, heck we'll trade 'em all the doggie biscuits they need for a portion of it. But there is another treasure they have that they want to protect at all costs...

FACE - honor - dignity

Reread items 1. and 2. above.
Let #1. stand as is.
This time in item 2. substitute 'Arab Culture' for Israel.

But I could be wrong
 
If you think that my reference to "scumvermin" was to the entire Iraqi populace, rather than to the terrorists who deserve the appellation
Yup. That's exactly what I had thought. And the same with, "terrorists".

I've seen too many right-wingers use the term "terrorists" and "Iraqis" (or "Muslims" or "Islamics") interchangeably. I apologize for confusing you with those who do use those terms interchangeably.
 
I've seen too many right-wingers use the term "terrorists" and "Iraqis" (or "Muslims" or "Islamics") interchangeably. I apologize for confusing you with those who do use those terms interchangeably.

Is it possible that your assumptive behavior might be the source of a lot of the recent discord around here?
 
Is it possible that your assumptive behavior might be the source of a lot of the recent discord around here?
While I'm not one to defend w4rma's positions (as w4 does that quite well), I think that several people who post here re: recent harmonious dischord paint with a broad brush, myself included at times... but I wouldn't pinpoint all of the recent hyperbole and venting as being w4's doing... would you?
 
Thumper asked:
For the sake of argument, let's say that's true. Does that diminish your resolve as to what has to be done now?

That depends on what you mean by "what has to be done now." If you mean use of additional military strength, then you are begging the question and I won't answer. You can't fight a culture or kill an idea, AFAIK, and you can't bomb tribal people into being a 21st century representative republic, either. What has to be done isn't something as simple and viscerally satisfying as just killing some people.
 
My reactions are very simple. If I am taking fire from a Mosque it is no longer a Mosque but a gun emplacement. There isn't any building that holds special status. My thoughts also run along the lines of there are no innocents in these places. Always did amaze me that just about everywhere and everything was considered a holey place. Don't let the opposition make the rules if you want to win.
 
Bruce

----------------Always did amaze me that just about everywhere and everything was considered a holey place---------------------

HOLY place until you get fired on from it. THEN it becomes a HOLEY place. ;)
 
W4 when the guns come out winning means those shooting at you never will again. Once the shooting starts the hand wringing lace pants need to set down and shut up. When arms are used against each other There are no innocents. There are only different ideals. The real problem is the same people who get us into these deals are generally not qualified to prosecute them. Their thinking is too much along the lines of " winning would be nice but lets not piss anyone off". Once you send men and women on a mission with weapons you better have all the plans thought through. It is damn hard to make friends when killing people and you shouldn't try. Crush the opposition them rebuild what you want.
 
W4 when the guns come out winning means those shooting at you never will again. Once the shooting starts the hand wringing lace pants need to set down and shut up. When arms are used against each other There are no innocents.
Your definition of "win" includes everyone in Iraq being dead? Why not just hit Iraq with multiple nukes if that is what you want? Or, better yet, blockade the border and run a few sweeps killing everyone inside (as I mistakenly thought Hawkmoon had approved of)? Or, maybe you don't quite understand the situation?
 
Nice take mercedesrules. Not surprising from someone who wouldn't help their neighbor for fear of getting involved. I plainly said those shooting at you. I did not say anything about the entire Iraqi population. Standard fare fromn you.
 
[left rant on] Al Qaeda is only in Iraq because we are in Iraq [left rant off]

Bush outsmarts the leftists at every turn. Iraq will be seen for its genius: beachhead of democracy in the oil center of the world, removal of threats, and attracting the Jihadists like moths to a flame (thus keeping them away from the US).

It is open season and their is no bag limit. :D
 
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