Goodbye W231/HP38?

Status
Not open for further replies.
And the IMR plant (also owned by GD) in Canada. Universal Clays is now being made in Canada - the new MSRP will have e looking for better stuff from Alliant when my stash runs out. Universal works great on 20 & 28 gauge, as well as ALL of my pistols from 32 SWL to 45

I had assumed that ADI in Australia produced the three Clays. Not so?

ljnowell, I agree, that is why I don't play the market or bet on ponies. ;)
 
As of March of this year W231/HP38 was not on the list of powder being produced for Hodgdon by St Marks.

I would say that it isn't being made any longer.
 
Well its their prerogative to produce whatever product they want, but its my prerogative to buy what I want. My new replacement powder for w231/HP 38 will not be a Hodgdon product.... Now they will loose me as a customer forever. Can they afford to loose that many customers ? We'll see.
 
Interesting.
W231 is one of my favorite pistol powders. I just gave up my 8-lb jug in trade for a well-used Dillon 550.
Figured I'd be able to replace the 231...maybe not.
 
It is only powder. Lots of powders to choose from. If you are hinging your reloading life on HP 38/Win231 then it will be a lesson learned, maybe.

I'm not sure why anyone would be angry at Hodgdon, but some folks are like that(marginally insane).
 
Alliant powder is made here in the US, they don't buy powder from off shore, relabel it, and mark it up. They also don't market the same powder (HP38/W231) under different names and publish different load data for each one.

I switched to Alliant a long time ago when I found out that Hodgdon wasn't exactly a powder company.
 
I was said to see 7625 go, I was sad to see 4756 go, I will be even sadder if HP38/231 goes. Will I stop purchasing Hodgdon powders if HP38/231 goes away, no.

I prefer Universal for 9mm, but HP38 is been my go to for .45 APC.
4.7 or 5 gr HP38, 230 RMR plated.

Guess I need to get my hands on some AA#2 or Ramshot ZIP to try, they look like they might be a best guess for a HP38 replacement.
N320 worked real well for me in .45 but it's almost 50% more per pound.

If HP38/231 went to N320s price would we all be willing to pay the premium or would most of us just use something else?
While I like N320 and HP38 I just don't think I would buy much HP38 at $35 an lb. (assuming other choices are $20-$25 / lb)

If it is an old process waste stream issue, it makes me wonder what other powders might be effected. :uhoh:

It will be interesting to see if we see more people start selling the some of the powders we are not used to seeing here in the US like the Maxam, Explosia and Vectan powders.

Side note
I have used Titegroup with MBC lead and coated in 9mm and .45 with no ill effects in light to midrange loads. (no issues with leading) I have also heard it is "to hot" for lead but it seemed to work fine for me.

It would be great if they start making Universal in Canada as well as down under at ADI. I really like Universal, maybe not the best for everything but a good all around powder that meters better and is cleaner than Unique.
 
Last edited:
CoalTrain49 said:
Alliant powder is made here in the US, they don't buy powder from off shore, relabel it, and mark it up.
Not true. Alliant RL15 is made in Sweden - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=577067

In February of 2015, ATK/Alliant got spun off to Vista Outdoor and like RCBS moving manufacturing offshore, we may see more globalization of Vista Outdoor products - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=777478

BTW, Vista Outdoor parent company owns following companies:

Alliant Powder
Camelbak
Cébé
Champion Targets
BLACKHAWK!
Bollé
Final Approach
Gold Tip Arrows
Hoppe's
Outers
Primos
RCBS
Serengeti
Speer
Uncle Mike's
Weaver Optics

Companies will make decisions that affect their bottom dollar and share holder interests. If the decision reduces waste products and increases profit, can't blame the company.

I like W231/HP-38 among Hodgdon's other pistol powders (WST/Titegroup/WSF/AutoComp and made in USA) but elimination of W231/HP-38 won't hardly affect my shooting/reloading as there are many other good pistol powders, particuarly made in USA.
 
Interesting. You caused me to do some research which is good.

Seems all of Alliants RL powder is produced by Bofors in Sweden. Who owns that company? Well it isn't Vista Outdoor for sure so my statement is totally incorrect as you stated.

Looks like another US company has control of that plant as they make a lot of powder for US military small arms. Same company that manages the Army's Radford VA plant. :scrutiny:
 
Interesting. You caused me to do some research which is good.

Seems all of Alliants RL powder is produced by Bofors in Sweden. Who owns that company? Well it isn't Vista Outdoor for sure so my statement is totally incorrect as you stated. I came up with some weird stuff. Looks like the same defense contractor that pushed ATK out of the Radford Plant.

Some speculate that RL-15 also has a military designation, M something or other.
 
Last edited:
If you do the math the cost difference in $20 per pound to $40 per pound is less than two cents per round. Not enough to break my budget.
 
And just to add to the general hilarity, ADI is changing processing and will have new powders:

"This new series of powders will be called the APS series of powders, starting with APS35 that will replace AS30N (Clays), and APS45 that will replace both AS50N (International Clays) and AP50N (No US sales version I know of.) You will see these powders start appearing on the shelves after May this year, and we will be making reloading data available for them on our website and in the 2015 edition of our reloading manual, which will be released in May. Our development of APS-series powders to replace AP70N (Universal Clays) is well under way, but we will continue to supply AP70N throughout 2015 until the new powder is ready for release."

APS powders will come out in May 2016 with another year's supply of AS/AP powders on hand... unless the Next Panic gobbles it up sooner.
 
Average Joe said:
My new replacement powder for w231/HP 38 will not be a Hodgdon product.... Now they will loose me as a customer forever.

It's a free country, do as you wish, but.

..can you explain why you would blame and desire to punish the distributor(Hodgdon) for the decisions of the manufacturer (General Dynamics).

Hodgdon has NO say in this decision, they are most likely more upset about GD decision to phase out 231/HP-38 then you are.
 
If you do the math the cost difference in $20 per pound to $40 per pound is less than two cents per round. Not enough to break my budget.

If you do the math, most powders are priced at similar levels. Even though there are many that might buy W231/HP38 at higher levels, many more will probably not, me included.

The volume of sales will fall off to the point where it will not be profitable for Hodgdon to inventory the powder.

There are too many alternate powders out there that give similar performance as W231/HP-38.

Basic retail economics.

As a result of the Great Panic of 2012, I have been developing loads with alternate powders for most of what I reload. I'll miss W231/HP-38, but I can live without. I have been since 2012.
 
Well, despite the evidence, I will believe it is gone when it is gone. But that will be hard to determine, because it has been mostly gone for the last couple of years anyway.

Over two years ago, there was a rumor that HP38 was being discontinued since it was identical to W231. Apparently, that never happened either.

One positive thing about the shortage of powders - I picked up a pound of anything I could find, just to try out. I've found a few keepers as a result. I'm still testing new powders.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0679sm.jpg
    IMG_0679sm.jpg
    52.8 KB · Views: 656
I just came back from several months away from THR and this is the first thread I saw. Tragic. It was my favorite powder. HS-6, Longshot and Titegroup will all make suitable replacements though
 
Toprudder said:
Does anyone think this may be an attempt to increase demand for it so they can jack the price?

Really, Increase Demand?

Where have you been?

There is no way any of these powder manufacturers can keep up with demand now. There is no need to do so artificially by spreading rumors.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top