‘Red flag’ gun law should include minors and cohabitants, Washington state prosecutors say

[amprecon]

"And, BTW, let's stop calling every idea we don't agree with "communist." Makes us look stupid."
Speak for yourself.
If it sounds like a duck and walks like a duck....it's not a sparrow.

 

[AlexanderA]

"And, BTW, let's stop calling every idea we don't agree with "communist." Makes us look stupid."
Speak for yourself.
If it sounds like a duck and walks like a duck....it's not a sparrow.

Most gun-grabbers are not communists. Is the billionaire Bloomberg a communist? I don't think so.

 

[amprecon]

Most gun-grabbers are not communists. Is the billionaire Bloomberg a communist? I don't think so.

Most gun-grabbers clamor towards socialism. They want the State to have all power to do all things they are unable to accomplish themselves Constitution and Bill of Rights be damned. Our definitions of communism/socialism obviously differ, I will continue to call things as I see them.

 

[Spats McGee]

This isn’t good. Why should the father have to move the guns out of the home?

If the father can prove his guns are legally and safely stored in the house and the juvenile doesn’t have access to them he should be fine.

. . . .Domestic violence prosecutor Kimberly Wyatt in King County believes the red flag law should cover juveniles, the station reported. . . . .She said the case involves an 18-year-old charged with a crime whose father owns guns but who refuses to tell cops where they are still being kept in the home.

I assume without knowing that the 18 y.o. was charged with a crime that was (allegedly) committed before he turned 18. Beyond that, though, this case does not revolve around a juvenile.

Granted in this case he isn’t cooperating because he is supposed to move them out of the home.

The father not cooperating with the police to make sure his son doesn't harm anyone else indicates one possibility for why the son is screwed up in the first place.

I'll grant that the father absolutely should take significant steps to ensure that the son does not harm anyone, but I'm pretty sure I'm not required to cooperate with the police. That's what the 4th and 5th Amendments tell me, anyway.

Yes, this is one of my great fears -- that disqualification criteria will be extended to everyone in the gun owner's home, or even to everyone in his social circle. There's a good chance many of us have one or more relatives, girlfriends, close friends, etc., that might not be100% mentally stable, that might have had past run-ins with the law, that might abuse drugs, etc. If we can be disqualified from having guns because of the failings of these other people, gun ownership in general becomes highly problematic.

I'm with you on this one. If I can be forced to move guns out of my home, or to allow warrantless searches (to validate "compliance") of my home, based on the actions of other adults, we have a problem.

I don’t think the situation is that deep. If I’m the homeowner, it’s my guns, and the warrant extends to me without due process it’s a slam dunk case of depriving me of my 2a rights. The warrant applies to me by parental proxy and that won’t be good enough in court.

What is this "parental proxy" of which you speak?

The way I see it is the anti-gun crowd will want to take your guns BEFORE you go through the determination process of whether or not you are mentally stable or not. That is not DUE PROCESS in our Country and we should never allow it.

Right, wrong, or indifferent, Due Process has been upheld in "post-deprivation" (aka "take first, have a hearing later") situations. Legally, it's a last resort, but it can legally be done in emergency situations.

 

[vito]

There are enough people in this country that think than no one should be allowed to have a firearm in their home that liberal "red flag" laws will undoubtedly be abused. The Left has successfully made the 2nd Amendment a second tier right, if even that. A law that blatantly violated 1st Amendment free speech rights would face greater opposition from the courts and others (except if that violation seemed to benefit the LBGQT community which everyone seems terrified to oppose) than a violation of the 2nd Amendment. I know that I am a responsible gun owner, but I also know that I have a grown daughter who is vehemently anti gun. She truly believes that if we had just more laws banning all gun possession, she could finally stop worrying about her children coming to harm by some gun wielding individual. Of course she is totally wrong, but that does not dissuade her. If the local law here in our state allowed it, I have little doubt that she would eventually be a complainant, thinking it is for my own good to have my guns seized by the police. It really alarms me to see these "red flag" laws being enacted in states that are otherwise seemingly gun friendly, like Pennsylvania. I expect such laws in places where hatred of guns is the norm, like NY and NJ. The whole concept of "red flag" laws, with their lack of due process and total disregard for the rights we have under the 2nd Amendment may ultimately become our biggest threat in the future.

 

[AlexanderA]

We are at this point because some gun owners (such as the mother of the Sandy Hook shooter) failed to self-police. Sometimes I think that we are our own worst enemies.

There are some "absolutists" in the gun community who think that anyone, at any time, should be able to have a gun. Anything else is an "infringement" of 2nd Amendment rights. Such people are part of the problem.

 

[heyjoe]

Socialism is an economic system not a political system

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

And to think we get weird looks when my wife and I tell folks that the world has enough children when we get asked if we have any.

Another crazy law that does nothing but encroach on folks lives.

 

[Spats McGee]

Socialism is an economic system not a political system

so·cial·ism | \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm
\
Definition of socialism

1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

2a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property

b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dic...campaign=sd&utm_medium=serp&utm_source=jsonld

 

[BlueHeelerFl]

Yes but meanwhile they do it. You have to fight it in court. Does the average Joe have $10,000 or more to fight that?
I've seen this argument so much on so many fronts, ''it will lose in court.'' That takes $$ and not talking the equivalent of $ not getting the new model of iPhone XVI, especially considering the state has extremely very largely big deep pockets.

And if you win the state will appeal all the way to the SCOTUS. How much in money, time, and stress will that cost?

 

[AlexanderA]

Yes but meanwhile they do it. You have to fight it in court. Does the average Joe have $10,000 or more to fight that?

The average gun owner doesn't have to fight these things alone. When one is targeted, other gun owners can pool their resources to help him out. Such collective action is the key. Ironically, such "socialistic" collective action (all for one, one for all) can be used to fight the "socialistic" gun grabbers. Now, with things like Go Fund Me, large sums of money can be raised quickly in small individual amounts. We just need to become better organized.

 

[BlueHeelerFl]

The average gun owner doesn't have to fight these things alone. When one is targeted, other gun owners can pool their resources to help him out. Such collective action is the key. Ironically, such "socialistic" collective action (all for one, one for all) can be used to fight the "socialistic" gun grabbers. Now, with things like Go Fund Me, large sums of money can be raised quickly in small individual amounts. We just need to become better organized.

Go Fund Me is good unless they (like so many other.online social sites) decides to become political and ban things they don't agree with

 

[heyjoe]

Definitions of socialism vary in different dictionaries as to whether it is a political and economic system or a social and economic system. Better put would be to say Socialism doesnt depend on a particular political system. Socialism could exist under egalitarian systems, democracy, a republic, or an autoritarian political system. So while there needs to be a political system to administer socialism, there does not need to be a particular type of political system

 

[Trey Veston]

The average gun owner doesn't have to fight these things alone. When one is targeted, other gun owners can pool their resources to help him out. Such collective action is the key. Ironically, such "socialistic" collective action (all for one, one for all) can be used to fight the "socialistic" gun grabbers. Now, with things like Go Fund Me, large sums of money can be raised quickly in small individual amounts. We just need to become better organized.

We were organized. It was called "America"...
Sad to see a once great nation descend into tyranny.

 

[tallpaul]

I don’t think the situation is that deep. If I’m the homeowner, it’s my guns, and the warrant extends to me without due process it’s a slam dunk case of depriving me of my 2a rights. The warrant applies to me by parental proxy and that won’t be good enough in court.

You can think that all you want and may even be right but they will come and take your guns and privacy away and ciost you nothing but pain and money even if you win in the long run... you likely would not gett you collection back and may not even be able to replace it all...

 

[tallpaul]

I also cant help to wonder if they will be taking reloading presses-powder n ammo also?

 

[BlueHeelerFl]

I also cant help to wonder if they will be taking reloading presses-powder n ammo also?

True. Many areas treat ammo like firearms