“Bringing a fake gun to a gunfight..."

[twoclones]

Copied this from NRAILA website.

A homeowner in Las Vegas, Nev., arrived home around 4:15 p.m. and found his house being burglarized. As the homeowner went inside, he was confronted by career burglar Mark Clinton Vains, who pulled out a gun and pointed it at the homeowner. The homeowner, a Right-To-Carry permit holder, drew his gun and fired at Vains, killing him.

Police later discovered that Vains, who had a history of burglary dating back to 1992, had used a pellet gun during the incident. Las Vegas police did not charge the homeowner in the case and Homicide Lt. Lew Roberts said, “You either shoot him, or he shoots you.” Local gun shop owner and frequent expert firearm witness, Bob Irwin also agreed with the homeowner’s actions in the case and stated, “Bringing a fake gun to a gunfight is not a healthy thing to do." (Fox5Vegas, Las Vegas, Nev. 02/16/09, KTNV, Las Vegas, Nev. 02/16/09, KVBC-TV, Las Vegas, Nev. 02/19/09)

 

[Duke of Doubt]

I once had a court-appointed client get apprehended with dope and a pellet gun. I asked him, "Are you [freak]ing retarded?" I mean, it's the worst of both worlds. First of all, it's technically a gun in Maine, not that it's regulated, but for purposes of criminal law. He didn't know that. Second, obviously it won't help him protect himself from being robbed or attacked. Third, actually showing it will provoke legally-privileged responses with real weapons. His answer? "But I couldn't afford a Glock." I was tempted to tell him how little a used Hi-Point goes for, but decided against it in the interest of public safety.

I have a friend with a son who carried one around for awhile, pointing it at people. Friend was concerned at the face I made when I learned this interesting fact. I asked just what the kid would do when he pointed the thing at me in traffic and I blew him away with my Beretta. He really hadn't considered that as a likely outcome.

 

[twoclones]

"Are you [freak]ing retarded?"

Did you go for the Insanity defense?

 

[Jim K]

I was told more years ago than I care to think about that an empty or fake gun can get you into trouble, but it can't get you out.

Still good advice.

Jim

 

[2RCO]

THis reminds me of the family member that wanted a "real looking" pistol in case of home invasion. ---Bad idea!

 

[CAS700850]

In Ohio, a pellet/air soft gun doesn't qualify as a firearm, so many BG's choose one of these for robberies to avoid the three year gun spec on the underlying charge.

 

[bikerdoc]

There is no pill for stupid.
Doc

 

[BBQLS1]

Wow.

 

[Texian]

Bad day to be a bad guy....

 

[Cannonball888]

In Ohio, a pellet/air soft gun doesn't qualify as a firearm, so many BG's choose one of these for robberies to avoid the three year gun spec on the underlying charge.

Very strange. Most other states will convict a person of armed robbery if the robber stuck his finger in his pocket and said he had a gun.

 

[highorder]

Quote:
In Ohio, a pellet/air soft gun doesn't qualify as a firearm, so many BG's choose one of these for robberies to avoid the three year gun spec on the underlying charge.
Very strange. Most other states will convict a person of armed robbery if the robber stuck his finger in his pocket and said he had a gun.

Thats how I understand it. If you imply in any way that you are armed, it becomes ARMED robbery.

IANAL.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

Cannonball888: "Very strange. Most other states will convict a person of armed robbery if the robber stuck his finger in his pocket and said he had a gun."

Not only that. Some states, for purposes of determining whether a crime was committed "with a firearm", and for sentencing determinations, treat that pellet pistol exactly the same as if it were a .44 Magnum.

 

[Byron Quick]

You can't cure stupid. I once had an employee hide a toy Uzi under his coat and then pull it on me in poor light. The idiot knew I was armed. I swept the Uzi off line as I was drawing my Highpower. He was gobbling. As I was sweeping the Uzi, I realized the inertia was wrong and that it was plastic.

If I hadn't made contact with that 'Uzi;' I would have shot him. If I hadn't owned an Uzi and thus been familiar with its mass; I would have shot him.

Dumb guy but his father was spot on when he nicknamed his son...Hammerhead.

 

[Speedo66]

In NY the criteria for an armed robbery is "displays what appears to be a gun". We're talking Rob 2deg, a C Violent Fel.

So pellet gun, replica gun, blank gun, real looking toy gun, etc. will all add (many) years to your sentence.

 

[the iron horse]

I did that one night back in the 80s.

I had just left a class late one night and stop at a Seven Eleven.

Walking in I noticed a guy outside to the left of the entrance.

Keeping that in mind, plus that I had my revolver in the glove compartment of my car, I walked out aware.

The moment I opened my car door he approached and asked for a ride three blocks away.

In a non-offending voice I told him I never gave rides and at the same time I
put my right hand behind my back.

(I had no gun. It was in the car.)

Making a few movements to suggest I was reaching for something.

He was about six feet away and I could see he noticed my hand movement.


He said nothing and walked away

 

[Hungry Seagull]

Im ashamed to see such stupidty. You think with all of the powers provided to us over all other life on earth, we would know better. But nooo...

 

[RoboDuck]

I wish all bad guys carried fake guns.

 

[Smith]

THis reminds me of the family member that wanted a "real looking" pistol in case of home invasion. ---Bad idea!

Same here!

 

[Deanimator]

Back in the late '80s or early '90s, there was a guy in usenet rec.guns who insisted that it was a "good" idea to carry a fake gun. Pretty much everybody ripped him a new one you could sail a guided missile frigate through, but he stuck to his [fake] guns. Called himself "Rifleman". Should have been "Retarded Child".

 

[Alchymist]

Unfortunately there is no law against stupidity. Er, actually, there is in a sense ....Darwin's law. Unlike legal statues, it enforces itself.

 

[armedandsafe]

I think I remember rifleman. He had some strange ideas on other subjects, also. I think one was that you could bend the front sight on a rifle and get windage and elevation adjustment at the same time.

Pops

 

[Deanimator]

I think one was that you could bend the front sight on a rifle and get windage and elevation adjustment at the same time.

I'm sure that WILL give you windage and elevation adjustment at the same time. It's just that most GROWNUPS don't want it to be RANDOM adjustment. He wasn't the biggest buffoon I ever came across in usenet, but he merited an honorable mention.

 

[WardenWolf]

It is a fundamental flaw of human reasoning to assume other people are smart. This has been borne over and over throughout history. It only truly started to show itself in earnest, though, in the 20th century. During this time, mass media began marketing "smart" to the common man. "It's the smart thing to do. . .", and "You'll be smart if you do this." So instead of primarily highly skilled and specialized people being regarded as smart, it became something to be expected.

Unfortunately, this denies the true underlying fact: people are stupid. Individuals may be smart, but people, on a whole, are stupid. And if you are one of those people possessed with a degree of skill as to be in position of authority, you need to remember this and never assume that anything that has even the slightest degree of ambiguity will be interpreted correctly. You cannot trust people to "fill in the gaps". You need to spell it out, plain as day, or someone, somewhere, will get it wrong. And even if you do spell it out, plain as day, someone, somewhere, will STILL get it wrong.

Doubly unforunately, we, as a species, have advanced technologically and societally to the point where natural selection does not weed out many of the stupid individuals. This means that society, on a whole, is, in fact, becoming more stupid.

 

[coloradokevin]

Perception is reality.

We have a lot of gang bangers down in the district where I work who use fake guns for robberies and such. In fact, just based on my unofficial anecdotal evidence from working the street, I'd say that 30% of our gun robberies are committed with pellet/airsoft/inoperable guns. I recently had one where a guy used an inoperable black powder revolver to menace someone!

A lot of non-guns look very realistic these days, and I've had a few partners who have killed people when drawn on by these kinds of criminals (ie: a few years ago a couple of officers I had worked with made a traffic stop on a stolen car. The bad guy jumped out and aimed an airsoft gun at our guys. He ended up "DRT").

 

[Gamera]

You'd think if they were going to commit a crime they would do it the correct way...