“Synthetic Gun Oil” safer for plastic gun parts? Not likely.

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rpenmanparker

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This conversation was starting in another thread. I thought it deserved a thread of its own.

As far as using engine oil for lubrication- even "synthetic" engine oils use petroleum base stocks and I would be hesitant about exposing a poly-framed pistol to them for any length of time, just because petroleum oils, plastics, and rubber don't play nice together. Hoppes Synthetic gun lube is petroleum free and would be my first choice. Just my 2c....
You raise a good point that I had never considered before. As a plastics material scientist, I should have thought of this before. I have had two cans of standard gun oil (Hoppe’s and Sears) for 40 years since my only gun was a Security Six stainless .357. When a I started really shooting 5 years ago, I just started using up those petroleum oils even though now a couple of my guns have polymer frames. I don’t think there is a problem with glass-filled nylon, but why take a chance. I will order some of the synthetic. Thanks.

EDIT: I just checked the Material Data Safety Sheet of the Hoppe’s Synthetic Blend Oil and found it to contain 97% mineral oil, i.e. petroleum distillate. So it doesn’t appear it would be any more or less damaging to plastic gun components than old fashioned gun oils. The term synthetic must simply refer to the special lubricants included in minor amounts in the formulation like molybdenum sulfide and Teflon.

Shall we discuss?
 
I would think the gun makers have taken this into consideration and don't use materials that petroleum oils would hurt. Dunno.
Makes sense. I had said I didn’t think there would be a problem, but if a substitute oil were available, why take a chance. Well it doesn’t appear one is, so we are back to doing it like always.
 
plastics material scientist

I assume, and you should know, are the frames are thermoplastic instead of thermoset? I would assume that the plastic frames on pistols are thermoset because of the ease of casting and curing. And not having thermoset plastics cure inside production equipment when the line goes down.

I asked epoxy manufacturers about their product's resistance to oil, and, the comment back was, oil degrades all plastics. As you know, epoxies are thermoset plastics and should be the most resistant to change. Now I have Bakelite parts, things like bayonet grips, that have been saturated in grease for over 50 years, and I can't tell if the material is degraded.

You might know, are there standardized tests on the resistance of plastic parts to oil?

I have had enough plastic parts break, I don't trust plastic frames, don't have any, don't want any.

Natural oils are distilled, so they have a wider distribution of polymers, so that should be about the major difference between the bases of natural versus synthetic. Additive packages are all proprietary. I have not seen any data or know of (because I am quite ignorant on this subject) standardized tests and material compatibility testing of additive packages on plastics. I will say, I got to look at an SAE engine oil spec, there were a lot of tests, and I am certain, compatibility testing is done because there are plastic parts in engines.

I will also say, just because something automotive is on the shelf does not mean it is compatible with your engine. When orange Texaco Havoline coolant first came out, I tried it. The bottle said compatible with everything. They lied. It ate the seals and gaskets in my 1995 dodge 3.9 L V6 engine. I called Texaco, asked them about the red sludge floating in the engine coolant and the technical representatives told me it was rust, caused by air pockets in the coolant system. A combination of air, hot engine surfaces, caused rust to form when the coolant slapped the surface. What the bastards did not tell me, was they knew their coolant ate engine gaskets/seals and the air pockets were due to leaks that their coolant had caused, by eating the gasket materials in the engine.

That ruined that engine as a hot spot developed in a cylinder head. One cylinder head cracked right in the combustion chamber. Combustion gases then flowed into the cooling system, that over pressurized the coolant system, which increased coolant leaks, also popped the intake manifold, and let dust into cylinder #1. That ruined engine compression.
 
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No, as I understand it, plastic pistol frames are thermoplastic, most likely injection molded. Last I heard the frames are glass filled nylon.

Sure there are tests for the resistance to various substances like oil. You can bet the gun makers have had their plastic parts tested extensively.
 
I have had enough plastic parts break, I don't trust plastic frames, don't have any, don't want any.
I have posted before that I would not go to war with a plastic pistol, but since I don't have that issue, I am not overly worried if my polymer/plastic/whatever it is framed guns might crack or break someday. Just a chance we take. I wonder if Sig, S&W, or SA would replace a broken/deteriorated frame 30 years from now if it fails.
 
I threw away a plastic five gallon bucket yesterday that had cracked in the heat of a storage shed (Probably been there four or five years). When I threw it in the empty open top dumpster it shattered when it hit the steel bottom. Of course that isn't a gun frame, but does show what some plastics can do over time. It's natural for us old timers to be wary of plastic guns. Plastic when we were kids was junk. It has come a long long way.
 
The base for most of these wonder lubes is just mineral oil. I think a lot of shooters have been tricked and duped.

I'm not too concerned anyway as I have to figure that any potential issues with polymer and brand x's lube would have come to light by now after 20-30 years of poly pistol mania.


I'm also betting our military has done extensive testing on this as well.
 
I'm not too concerned anyway as I have to figure that any potential issues with polymer and brand x's lube would have come to light by now after 20-30 years of poly pistol mania.


I'm also betting our military has done extensive testing on this as well.

^^^This. I would have thought manufacturer R&D would have been all over this from the start, and several decades of usage has yet to show an issue. Didn't take long for folks with Nickle plated guns to discover what solvents were not good for them.
 
Glocks are thought to be made of Nylon 6, maybe with a little Schwammerlgulasch.

Robert says Nylon 6,6. OK, same general chemical resistance.

They have been on the US market for about 30 years and have no doubt been cleaned and lubed with anything considered reasonably suitable. If there was anything dissolving them, the cries of outrage would be all over the place.

On the other hand, Nylon is not at all resistant to any acid.

On the gripping hand, Nylon is very resistant to attack by wine, whiskey, and beer. But they say not to mix liquor and gunpowder, so it is more useful to know Nylon is also resistant to milk and chocolate syrup, so if you drip your ice cream on your pistol, it is OK.
 
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I've been using Rem Oil(spray) and Mobil 1 for years with no ill effects.

CLP is pretty much PAO anyway so using Mobil 1 is OK. People that pay large sums of money for exotic gun oils are simply wasting money.
 
I some Shooters Choice bore solvent eat out the bottom of it's plastic bottle container. It was sitting for quite a few year though.

Since HK did not sell truckloads of the VP70z, a good gauge has to be Gen 1 Glocks. A really good survey of long-term Glock Gen 1 owners might shed some light on this. Questions like how many years, what kinds of solvent, lubricants etc any breakage, cracking etc of frames. What kind of temperature extremes exposed to etc.
 
I some Shooters Choice bore solvent eat out the bottom of it's plastic bottle container. It was sitting for quite a few year though.

Since HK did not sell truckloads of the VP70z, a good gauge has to be Gen 1 Glocks. A really good survey of long-term Glock Gen 1 owners might shed some light on this. Questions like how many years, what kinds of solvent, lubricants etc any breakage, cracking etc of frames. What kind of temperature extremes exposed to etc.
There was a poster here not too long ago who said he attended a Glock armorers course where they were instructed to do a "flex test" on earlier Gens and listen for cracking, IIRC. Maybe he can chip in again?

As far as the auto industry testing their engine plastics for chemical resistance- sure they do......they do a cost/benefit analysis of the number of plastic manifolds, thermostat housings, etc which will survive to the end of the warranty period. Beyond that, they couldn't care less.
 
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Amsoil makes gun cleaning and lubricating products. I have never tried them, but I understand that Amsoil automotive products are 100% synthetic, not a blend. Therefore, maybe their gun products are also 100% synthetic. Their website says "Safe to use on all metals, woods, composites and rubbers found in firearms." Does anyone have an opinion on these? By the way, I have no interest in selling Amsoil.
 
I some Shooters Choice bore solvent eat out the bottom of it's plastic bottle container. It was sitting for quite a few year though.

Since HK did not sell truckloads of the VP70z, a good gauge has to be Gen 1 Glocks. A really good survey of long-term Glock Gen 1 owners might shed some light on this. Questions like how many years, what kinds of solvent, lubricants etc any breakage, cracking etc of frames. What kind of temperature extremes exposed to etc.
Or Remington Nylon 66 rifles. Those have been around for a long time.
 
I have worked with industrial equipment in a few jobs, and the most common bushing material, or anything that slides and does not need precision is made of nylon, and it is often soaked in oil. Some of those nylon slides and bushings have been dripping with patroleum oil since the 60/70's and no degradation. I personally would not trust any type of common plastic other than nylon for any firearms purpose however, due as much for strength as stability. Never actually seen degradation in any poly parts, but the oldest I have is a '04 production keltec. But oil pans, and valve covers are now plastic, and they of course serve as oil tanks, and high heat, fairly high pressure, and lost of hot cold cycles. They've been going 20 years, and just about every failure is not oil degradation related. I would put the worry in the same class as saying not to polish your aluminum rims because you've removing the surface, and eventually, you'll polish the rims away. It is certainly accurate, but Im confident all personal firearms will be worldwide banned, confiscated and useless long before the plastic fails.
 
This conversation was starting in another thread. I thought it deserved a thread of its own.


You raise a good point that I had never considered before. As a plastics material scientist, I should have thought of this before. I have had two cans of standard gun oil (Hoppe’s and Sears) for 40 years since my only gun was a Security Six stainless .357. When a I started really shooting 5 years ago, I just started using up those petroleum oils even though now a couple of my guns have polymer frames. I don’t think there is a problem with glass-filled nylon, but why take a chance. I will order some of the synthetic. Thanks.

EDIT: I just checked the Material Data Safety Sheet of the Hoppe’s Synthetic Blend Oil and found it to contain 97% mineral oil, i.e. petroleum distillate. So it doesn’t appear it would be any more or less damaging to plastic gun components than old fashioned gun oils. The term synthetic must simply refer to the special lubricants included in minor amounts in the formulation like molybdenum sulfide and Teflon.

Shall we discuss?

As a Glock armorer, the lubrication and cleaning was covered and redundantly repeated, as you might guess. The message was that Glocks are safe with any cleaning compound or lubricant intended for firearms.

Now at the first armorer school, it was quite common for people to grab the aerosol can of brake parts cleaner or carburetor cleaner, and start the cleaning process, and flush the whole gun down, and then start with the conventional Hoppe's routine. And this was brought up in class. The reply, over and over, was: If it is intended for guns, it is safe on a Glock. (Brake parts means brake parts, etc. )

There was an example of Gun Scrubber dissolving the plastic trigger mechanism on a Charles Daley shotgun. It happened, I saw it. The reply from the Glock master armorer, was that Glock doesn't make shotguns. (chuckle) So, the lesson for me was that using anecdotal examples of experimental cleaning and lubrication recipes is a risk; the risk of destroying your firearm.
As it was, a year ago, I bought gun oil from a gun oil company; totally gummed up a Vaquero, and froze a 1911, in 80 degree weather. Stay away from this stuff! http://mobygreenproducts.com/

I do a lot of fun, innovative and creative things. Messing with my firearms on somebody's say-so that I have never met, no offense, but no thanks.
 
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Amsoil makes gun cleaning and lubricating products. I have never tried them, but I understand that Amsoil automotive products are 100% synthetic, not a blend. Therefore, maybe their gun products are also 100% synthetic. Their website says "Safe to use on all metals, woods, composites and rubbers found in firearms." Does anyone have an opinion on these? By the way, I have no interest in selling Amsoil.
I use Amsoil exclusively in my truck. I have not tried their gun products but know of them. Good question.
 
Whether natural or synthetic a hydrocarbon oil is a hydrocarbon oil. If that is what the Amsoil stuff is, then it shouldn’t affect plastics much differently from petroleum distillates. But not a big deal. We have it on good authority that quality plastic gun parts can withstand contact with oils.
 
There was a poster here not too long ago who said he attended a Glock armorers course where they were instructed to do a "flex test" on earlier Gens and listen for cracking, IIRC.

Materials improve with experience. Just the other day I was commenting (maybe here, sorry if duplicating to you) on buffers. The first CETME rifles (think G3) had an elastomeric buffer where the steel and spring one is now. It melted under normal use, some lube or other that the army had in service didn't play well, so they gave up. But in the intervening 60+ years we've gotten better materials.

I have personally, with my own eyes seen three (3) cracked Glock frames. Also broken frames on BUL, EAA, KT, and a few others.*

Anyway, and to the point, not on any gun made in the last ~20 years. They learn. Glock generations improved on their perfection by solving things like this. Sadly, like most manufacturers of anything, they don't tell you what they found to be wrong as you never admit error, but they do internally know if things dissolve or break. And the good ones do fix it.


* Not any of the plastic HKs. But related is a story I have been told reliable of the P7. Anyone notice the small frame shape differences between the PSP and P7M8? Aside from bits for the mag release, the other small changes to the frame, grip, etc. They are, I am told, because during a demo day a giant German police officer named Hans crushed the gun. Not tin-can, but enough it bound up the squeeze cocking mechanism. So they "Hans proofed" it in later versions.
 
Materials improve with experience. Just the other day I was commenting (maybe here, sorry if duplicating to you) on buffers. The first CETME rifles (think G3) had an elastomeric buffer where the steel and spring one is now. It melted under normal use, some lube or other that the army had in service didn't play well, so they gave up. But in the intervening 60+ years we've gotten better materials.

I have personally, with my own eyes seen three (3) cracked Glock frames. Also broken frames on BUL, EAA, KT, and a few others.*

Anyway, and to the point, not on any gun made in the last ~20 years. They learn. Glock generations improved on their perfection by solving things like this. Sadly, like most manufacturers of anything, they don't tell you what they found to be wrong as you never admit error, but they do internally know if things dissolve or break. And the good ones do fix it.


* Not any of the plastic HKs. But related is a story I have been told reliable of the P7. Anyone notice the small frame shape differences between the PSP and P7M8? Aside from bits for the mag release, the other small changes to the frame, grip, etc. They are, I am told, because during a demo day a giant German police officer named Hans crushed the gun. Not tin-can, but enough it bound up the squeeze cocking mechanism. So they "Hans proofed" it in later versions.
Hans Gruber? Lol:)
 
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