.002 shoulder setback vs gauge for 223?

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Shrinkmd

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I have both the Wilson 223 case gauge as well as the Hornady headspace comparator kit. I tried bumping back cases 0.002, but they weren't passing the gauge. I made up some 0.006" and they are falling nicely between the two indicators on the case gauge. I am loading for an AR, so they need to chamber well, but of course I'm looking for all the accuracy and extra case life I can achieve.

What would be the best way to proceed after I shoot this batch I am working on?
 
Did the ones that you simply bumped back .002" all chamber well?

If so, that should be a good solution.

For me, CASE LIFE is crucial -- I want the max out of all my cases. Since you are full length sizing, you are going to have repeated expansion of the cases on each firing, and on every resizing you need to probe the inner wall with a sharpened paper clip to feel for a possible head separation starting ("ditch" or "divot" that you can feel)

You particular rifle's headspacing may not be perfect, and hence you may have cases coming out of it (after firing) that are a bit "long" -- bump them back the minimum needed to reliably get them to rechamber, in my opinion. This will causxe them to stretch the minimum also, on the next firing, and that is the way to get less risk of a case head sparation.

If you are going to merely reload them once or twice, it is more academic.
 
What is the best way to check that the cases will chamber well in a semi auto like an AR? Would I need to trim and seat some dummy round bullets? Is it better to see if they chamber from slide lock, or just pull back on the charging handle and release?

And what if they get stuck?

I guess I could try bumping 0.004 and 0.002 and testing, but I don't want to get a live round stuck. I guess the forward assist would help?
 
I size .223 cases to fit my Wilson case gauge and get 8+ loadings (12 is not unheard of.) in my guns. Since there will be some variation in sizing due to differences in cases, I set it up so the cases are anywhere from barely passing long ways (Minimum slop) and about halfway down between the top edge and bottom edge on the gauge. Pressure will make a difference in case life as well.

There is no real need to size cases minimally for a .223 auto. If you happen to have a big sloppy chamber case life will be poor, unless you size to fit it, but then those rounds may chamber tightly or not at all in some guns.
 
1. Check your cases in as-fired condition.
2. If the head projects above the upper step, adjust your die as above to where the resized case drops even with the upper step or a little below. The idea is still to push the shoulder back as little as possible to allow easy chambering. The resized case needs only to drop .002 to .003 be-low the fired case.
Wilson 223 case gauge-
 
When bumping the shoulder, the fired case that you are going to measure must the case that is fired from your rifle. If your fired case is above the upper step, it means that your chamber's headspace is above maximum. If below the upper step but above the lower step, it means that your chamber is within SAAMI. Either way, adjust your die so that the resized case is bumped by .003-.005 inch compared to the fired case.

You can use either the Wilson gage or the Hornady gage.

Recommendation in bumping the shoulder.
Semi auto = .003-.005 inch
Bolt action= .001-.002 inch

When measuring the fired case, remove the primer first unless you are sure that the spent primer is below flush.
Measure at least five cases and get the average.
 
It's been my observations that fired cases have the most uniform outside dimensions. They press hard against the chamber walls and bolt face at peak pressure then spring back a thousandth or so.

When they're resized, depending on the die used, how its set in the press, what case lube's used and how much case lube's put on it and where, how long the case spends all the way into the die (the press springs up, then slowly comes back down and can move the fired case shoulder back another thousandth or two without lowering the ram), the dimensions of a bunch of sized cases will have a greater dimensional spread than before they were sized. The biggest spread will be in case headspace; the dimension from the case head to the headspace reference diameter/point on their shoulder.

Wilson case gauges have SAAMI case headspace limits for the steps on their base for folks to see if their cases are within SAAMI specs. If your rifle's .223 Rem. chamber headspace is at the maximum SAAMI limit (1.4736"), fired cases from it will have headspace .001" to .002" less (approximately 1.4720").

Full length sizing those fired cases setting their shoulder back .001" to .002" is ideal for both accuracy and case life for bolt guns. Semiauto rifles may need a bit more; .002" to .003". If their shoulder are set back more than this, there'll be more case stretching when they're fired. The firing pin drives them hard into the chamber shoulder (sets the shoulder back a thousandth or two from the force they're pushed into the chamber shoulder just like in a full length sizing die), then the case body front half expands against the chamber while the back half gets pushed back until the case head stops against the bolt face as it expands against the chamber wall. This stretching and expanding also sucks brass back from the case neck and shoulder making the case length a thousandth or two shorter than before it was fired. But the case stretching and sizing tends to make the case thinner at its pressure ring about 2/10ths inch in front of the case head. And too much repeated case stretching at this point ends up cracking the brass and that's called head separation. So, minimal shoulder setback is the solution for safety as well as long case life.

Full length sizing such cases squeezes the brass diameters down lengthening the case back. Repeated firing and sizing them shortens their length then makes them longer; they grow in length a thousandth or so each cycle. They have to be trimmed back when they get too long so chambering will be easy as well as the case mouth has clearance to the chamber mouth and won't stop against it when fired.

Use your case headspace gauge (Hornady LNL, RCBS Precision Mic, or whatever) to see how much shoulder setback you get. Uniformly lubing cases helps keeps the spread to a minimum. Using a Redding competition shell holder of the right height lets you set the die in the press so the shell holder stops against it when the case is far enough into the die and its shoulder is set back the right amount. With standard shell holders, be sure the press ram's held at the top for the same amount of time for each case sized.
 
If you are gaging fired ammunition out of a gas gun, it will be longer because it was stretched during extraction.

What is the best way to check that the cases will chamber well in a semi auto like an AR? Would I need to trim and seat some dummy round bullets? Is it better to see if they chamber from slide lock, or just pull back on the charging handle and release?

Frank White of Compass Lake Engineering will cut a "reamer cut" gage. The Wilson gage types are cut larger between shoulder and base so you can gage fired cases. Frank used a chamber reamer on a barrel stud, he has lots of chamber reamers, pick your chamber, so you get a gage that is exactly chamber dimensions.
 
Also, it's a 556 chamber, so aren't they a bit roomier than a plain 223? Next time I resize I will try bumping less.
 
I'll tell you.. I gave up on measuring and attempting to get a load that has something around a .020" jump from case mouth to the lands, to use in more than one rifle. Using my standard bullet that I hand load for the ARs, I measured all my chambers, shoulders to lands. It would be crazy to try and load anything that will work in multiple rifles. They are far to varied. I finally decided to simply set my dies to load a recommended/tested length that is less than the printed max, make sure they fit in the magazine, and go for it. I full length resize every case also. Surprisingly, I'm getting less than 1 MOA out of a heavy barrel, 20" RRA rifle.
 
I do it the hard way for guns in my stable chambered for bottleneck cartridges. I remove the extractor/ejector from the bolt of a self loader, and find a hull with a bunch of headspace from a range. I use a Precision Mic from RCBS to select the hull I need.

I have the Redding Competition Shellholder set. I use a thicker shellholder, usually a +.008" and size the hull.

If the bolt does not close on hull, or closes with resistance, I go to the next one down. This always works if the gun has standard headspace. Most AR's I check have from .004"-.006" headspace, with a worn AR having more. FN SCAR's typically have "generous" chambers. AK's? Max or worse.

Whether AR, Garand, or M1A, the bolt on an autoloader MUST CLOSE WITH NO RESISTANCE on the sized and trimmed case. I also use this on my bolt guns. I remove the striker assy' on non 1898 Mausers. I prefer the 1898 or a '98 type bolt gun with fixed ejector. I do not allow chambers to get neglected. YMMV.

This has worked for me since Redding started making their Comp Shellholder set, shortly after the earth cooled. LOL

If one is going to load the same round for a number of like rifles in the same caliber, the advice given above is good.

I have 2 223's and load them as separate calibers with their own headspace setting, powder charge, bullet, and seating depth.
 
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