1858-1860 Revolver Designs With Smokeless Ammo Cartridge Cylinders

[Gun Master]

I've seen all the BP reproduction revolvers, and their cartridge conversion cylinders.

I want :
1. A revolver repro (see above title) that,
2. Already has modern cartridge cylinder (.45 Colt, etc.),
3. That shoots standard to +P ammo (forget BP or Cowboy Shooting ammo),
4. And that does or does not have the ability to have a percussion cap cylinder (I prefer the latter).

In my quest I have not been able to locate all of the above.

Does anybody know where I might purchase this type of revolver ?

 

[BobWright]

No Nineteenth Century reproduction revolver that is historically correct should be used with any +P ammunition.

If you want power, buy a modern magnum revolver.

I can't imagine why of God's green earth one would want such a critter! Closest thing would be a Ruger Old Army fitted with a cartridge conversion cylinder. And that a poor second to a Blackhawk.

Bob Wright

 

[fish camp]

You just can't do mag loads with reproductions cowboy loads only with conversion cylinder . frames just aren't designed to withstand high pressures. You can experiment and get a good load within parameters. That's it no mag loads ! There's several recipes available to study on the web

 

[Gun Master]

No Nineteenth Century reproduction revolver that is historically correct should be used with any +P ammunition.

If you want power, buy a modern magnum revolver.

I can't imagine why of God's green earth one would want such a critter! Closest thing would be a Ruger Old Army fitted with a cartridge conversion cylinder. And that a poor second to a Blackhawk.

Bob Wright

Bob, we live in the same general vicinity, and are approximately the same age.
Heck, we may have passed each other, plinking on the Wolf River years ago (not recently).

It's the combination of history and modern maximum functionality .
Oh well, I guess I'll have to go with a Remington Model 1875 Outlaw reproduction.
Close !

 

[BSA1]

"Modern maximum functionality" huh?

Easy enough. Just load your cartridges with a case full of real blackpowder and soft lead bullet. The closest you can get to a true Open Top will be chambered for the 44 Colt but there are 44 Special reproductions to be had.

 

[CraigC]

The 1858 New Army factory conversion is as close as you're going to get. I would potentially be safe with .45ACP level loads, because .45ACP conversions are available for the percussion guns and the factory cartridge gun should be stronger but it would be a leap of faith to assume so. NOTHING you'd ever want to shoot Ruger only loads out of, even a converted Old Army.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

t's the combination of history and modern maximum functionality .
Oh well, I guess I'll have to go with a Remington Model 1875 Outlaw reproduction.
Close !

Howdy

First off, there is no such thing as +P loads for 45 Colt. Several manufacturers make high velocity loads for 45 Colt, but unlike 38 Special, there are no official SAAMI +P standards for 45 Colt.

Second, I would not put any hot 45 Colt loads in the 1875 Remington reproductions either. The chamber walls are too thin, not much different than a Colt reproduction.

If you go to the Buffalo Bore website, you will see that some of their 45 Colt ammo does not exceed standard pressure and is perfectly safe to shoot in conventional revolvers. And some of their 45 Colt ammo should only be fired in Ruger Blackhawks and other large frame revolvers. You have to read the information about each load to know which is which.

You might consider 357 Magnum. Most of the Single Action Army replicas are chambered for 357 Magnum. The cylinders are plenty large enough for thick chamber walls for this cartridge.

 

[CraigC]

And yet that is exactly what Buffalo Bore calls it.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=8

And Corbon.

https://shopcorbon.com/CORBON/Hunter/HT45C335HC-20

And Grizzly.

http://www.grizzlycartridge.com/index.php?app=ecom&ns=catshow&ref=45colt-p

And Garrett.

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/45.html

And DoubleTap.

http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/category&path=125_201

And Underwood.

https://underwoodammo.com/shop/45-colt-long-colt-p-250-grain-xtp-jacketed-hollow-point/

While .45Colt +P may not be officially officially acknowledged by SAAMI for obvious reasons, it is an established standard. That it is only appropriate for particular guns and does not exceed 32,000psi.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Since I have no interest in shooting those loads, I don't keep up with all the literature on them. But I am curious, where did the 32,000psi figure come from?

 

[CraigC]

John Linebaugh. Through destructive testing, it was determined that the .45Colt Blackhawk was 80% as strong as the .44 Super Blackhawk. So the ceiling was set at 80% of the .44's pressure limit for a 100% safety margin.

 

[Gun Master]

In the Rem Outlaw, I would chose .357 Mag or .45 ACP anyway, especially since I don't reload.
Although I used to own a S&W Combat Magnum and a Ruger Blackhawk, both in .357 Mag, I no longer do.
Shucks, I wish I still had them. The Ruger had an additional 9mm cylinder.
I still have several .38 Specials and a couple of .45 ACPs.

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

Taylor's has a factory-built Remington conversion that is as close as you are likely to get to what you are looking for. http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/hand-guns/cartridge-revolvers/1858-remington-conversion.html

These guns should be safe with any modern factory standard-pressure loads, and while their site does not list any restrictions that I can find I would not use 'Ruger only' or +P loads. The only other possibility that I can see for a gun of the sort that you are interested in would be an Uberti Walker replica with a Kirst gated cartridge conversion. These have been rechambered to .45 BPM (effectively .45-60) which is likely approaching .45LC +P velocities and pressures. The downside is you should only use lead bullets, as jacketed bullets can split the forcing cone and of course this would exceed Kirst's recommendation of loads that do not exceed 1000 fps. Note that while it has been done that doesn't automatically mean that it is a good idea...

 

[DWFan]

There is a difference between so-called +P and Ruger-only .45 Colt loads. The "+P" are loaded to .45 ACP levels of 21 kpsi. Ruger-only loads have a 32 kpsi maximum. SAAMI does not recognize either.

 

[CraigC]

There is a difference between so-called +P and Ruger-only .45 Colt loads. The "+P" are loaded to .45 ACP levels of 21 kpsi. Ruger-only loads have a 32 kpsi maximum. SAAMI does not recognize either.

Nope. None of the +P loads in the links I provided are 21,000psi. A 260gr at 1450fps is not 21,000psi. They are all going to be at least 30,000psi and squarely in "Ruger only" territory.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Gun Master,
How about a Dragoon that could do what you ask?


Bob,
As far as the ROA, I don't know why the proper set up would make it a "poor" 2nd to a Blkhwk!? Explain? (I like learning!)

Mike

 

[BobWright]

Bob,
As far as the ROA, I don't know why the proper set up would make it a "poor" 2nd to a Blkhwk!? Explain? (I like learning!)

The conversion cylinder for .45 Colt for the Ruger Old Army has a removable backplate to load/empty the cylinder, and leaves the rammer ass'y. in place. The Blackhawk is a cartridge revolver from the git-go. Ease of use, loading and ejecting, makes the cartridge revolver a better choice. As to heat treatment of the Old Army I'm not sure if it is capable of withstanding heavy .45 Colt loads. Just seems to make more sense to me to use the gun designed for the cartridge.

Looking at the cylinder information, seems they are only recommended for use with "Cowboy" ammunition.

Bob Wrighjt