1858 Pietta

[WALKERs210]

Several months ago I went through the battle of getting the nipples out of the cylinder of my 58 Pietta. Cleaned, cleaned and coated threads with anti-siege then just snugged the nipples in. This morning I was getting thing in order to go and try to put a few rounds in the general direction of a target. For some reason I pulled the cylinder and decided to give it a quick clean up. I thin Luigi the nipple tighter from Pietta had to have sneaked in one night because I had a battle again just to get the nipples out. Makes me wonder what it the heck happened. This time when reassembling I just let the nipples touch bottom and backed out slightly. If it sieges up again guess next step is to replace the nipples.

 

[TheWall]

When I got my 1858 Pietta Remmie from Cabela's last year I had the same problem with two of the nipples. I had to soak the cylinder in Kroil for a full day before they would come out (and I broke two nipple wrenches in the process). After that I thoroughly clean cylinder and nipples, dried and put a generous coat of Ballistol on nipples and threads on the cylinder. I had had several sessions at the range and cleaned thoroughly, then generous amount of Ballistol after cleaning. That has done the trick -- no problems with the nipples the revolver came with.

 

[mykeal]

One of the theories about Pietta's recent rash of stuck nipples on brand new guns is that they blue the cylinder with the nipples installed. This apparently means the mating faces of the nipple and the corresponding flat surface in hole it fits in are left 'in the white'. This surface can go unnoticed and fail to receive any lubrication or rust preventative. Corrosion can quickly form and cause the nipple to 'stick' - the surfaces must slide against each other when the nipple is turned and the friction is very high when the surfaces are corroded.

Like I said, it's a theory. On the new Piettas I've examined with stuck nipples, all had this symptom.

 

[WALKERs210]

Mykeal yes that was in fact the problem with this one. Last time I cleaned it and put it away I had coated the heck out of the treads with anti siege lube, and it was darn near froze in place and it has not been shot since the cleaning. Guess its just one of those things and will wind up changing the nipples if it keeps this up.

 

[mykeal]

If those mating surfaces are corroded you will need to do two things: replace the nipples (I strongly recommend Treso bronze - aka Ampco - but stainless, or for that matter even blued nipples should work) and resurface the cylinder mating surfaces. If they're not too badly corroded you could probably get away with keeping them oiled for a long time.

 

[arcticap]

I not only coat the nipple threads with breech plug grease, but also the interior chamber threads.
I try to smear the grease into all of the threads with a toothpick, then back the nipples in and out to coat everything.
The excess grease should also coat the flats where they seat.
And I never tighten them down very much at all.
Don't forget to check and/or pick the nipples to make sure that they're clear.
Maybe some types of grease work better than others.

 

[A. Walker]

Something to consider with nipples is that they are designed to leave a specific gap (.003-.004, I think it was) between the hammer face and the nipple; in other words, the hammer is not actually supposed to touch the nipple. Leaving them loose will cause them to back out and eventually you'll ruin your nipples and your hammer. Get the new nipples as Mykeal suggested and make sure they're installed properly.

And, BTW, just for your own info: anti-siege would mean you're defending the fort against the Roman army, while anti-sieze means those suckers will never freeze up on you again.

 

[Shultzhaus]

A. Walker - learn something new always on this forum. I never thought to check nipple/hammer clearance on any of my CB's. Must do that, but then, I have never really had a problem in that area. I clean the nipple threads with a brass brush, and the cylinder threads with a small bore brush (I think it is the .22 brush) and reinstall with a tiny drop of Ballistol.

 

[mykeal]

Just a note on hammer/nipple clearance.

A. Walker is absolutely correct - the design is such that the hammer face is not supposed to hit the nipple tip. However, the small clearance intended is very often not achieved in practice; it is a difficult dimension to control. Further, it's virtually impossible to purchase nipples with the proper length cone. The controlling dimension is the distance between the tip of the cone and the face that seats against the cylinder, and no, repeat, no nipple manufacturer or retailer provides that dimension in their catalog.

If you wish to establish that clearance on your revolvers you will need to purchase nipples that are too long and modify the nipple cone with a file or grinding stone. Take care, remove a small amount of material and check often. If the current nipple cones are too short you can insert thin brass washers under the nipple seat if you can find any. Tedious, but it will work. Whether or not it's worth it is a different question.

 

[junkman_01]

What is the thickness of the average #11 or #10 cap? I think that would have an effect on the whether a .003-.004 clearance is even going to fire the cap!
The hammers on all of my BP revolvers make contact with the nipples except my ROA. None have ruined the hammer face except my PR 1858 NMA which I got used in 1979 and was made in 1976. The previous owner dry fired it extensively and it now has the impression of the nipples onthe hammer face. You would think the hammer would be harder than the nipples, wouldn't you?

BTW, on all my rifles and muskets the hammers make contact with the nipples too.

 

[denster]

The thickness of the metal of the cap is about .005 and the priming compound takes up about .030 of space. Even with a few thousandths clearance between the nipple and the hammer the priming compound will be crushed enough to explode the cap.

 

[A. Walker]

BTW, on all my rifles and muskets the hammers make contact with the nipples too

Sounds like you have some work to do. Get the proper clearance and you'll no longer have this problem...

 

[mykeal]

Frankly I'm not sure there is a 'problem'. Yes, the design does not call for the hammer face to not strike the nipple, but to be honest, in over 30 years of shooting some of my guns, I've never seen a problem with either the nipple or hammer face being damaged on any of my guns, as long as the gun is not dry fired. I know that almost all do not have this clearance. I believe the cap cushions the blow sufficiently to prevent damage; either that or the concussion provides a buffer. In my opinion, this is a non problem.

 

[junkman_01]

My sentiments exactly!

 

[A. Walker]

Well, now, everybody has an opinion, and mine is that if something is designed to be a certain way, then that's the way it should be. While I agree that this is a minor "problem", I think I was more taken by the fact that the respondant was "not doing it right, and damned proud of it!".

There are two types of people in the world; those who try to do things as they are intended, and those who just don't give a flying @#$%$%. Just wondering whose camp we're visiting here.

 

[mykeal]

I think the world has a lot of gray in it. Lack of clearance between the nipple and the hammer face is an errant condition, no doubt about it. Colt's design intentions, and Remington and Rogers, et. al. also, are clear. If I had time and was concerned, I would certainly correct my guns to alleviate the condition. I'm certainly not 'damn proud of it'. But to be honest it's pretty far down the list of things I need to fix. So, maybe I'm kind of in the middle?

 

[A. Walker]

Mykeal, I wasn't referring to your comments with the "proud of it" statement; fact of the matter is that most of my guns do not have the recommended clearance primarily because it is nearly impossible to achieve. I don't know if Colt or Remington actually managed to perform this on the originals; I do know they were likely of superior manufacture compared to what we're seeing today from the Italians...

This is such a minor matter that I hate to quibble over it, but, still, facts are facts, and denying it doesn't change that. These guns were designed to have a gap between the hammer face and nipple. Whether we are capable of achieving that is another matter; it doesn't change the original design parameters.

 

[Bluehawk]

My Spiller & Burr has nipple defacement on the hammer and I've never dry fired it...I have fired it with caps alone but only twice.

 

[madcratebuilder]

It seems to me that the Italians are getting better at having a consistent nipple to hammer clearance. The older production revolvers almost always had the hammer hitting the nipple, the 1858's seemed the worst. I haven't had to address this problem on the last few new production guns I have bought. Establishing this nipple clearance extends the life of the nipples and is worth the time and effort for me.

My Spiller & Burr has nipple defacement on the hammer and I've never dry fired it...I have fired it with caps alone but only twice.

Possibly a poor or no heat treat on the hammer. I have encountered this on a few guns. I'll dress the nose of the hammer and give it a surface treatment with Kasenit.

 

[Bluehawk]

give it a surface treatment with Kasenit.

Good idea...I do believe I have some of that stuff in an envelope from Orygun...if I'm not mistaken!

 

[Bluehawk]

Don't forget to check and/or pick the nipples to make sure that they're clear.

Did that but they got infected...couldn't wear a shirt for nearly a week!!!! That's the last time I will take any advice from you Articap!!!!