1909 Winchester 1894 30 WCF

[ReadyontheRight]

What can you all tell me about a Winchester Model 1894 serial #491XXX "30 WCF"? I believe it's 1909 manufacture. Anyone have an approximate value?

The metal is likely re-blued, the stock is re-finished (rather poorly) and the buttplate has been replaced by a pad.

The sights seem original, but I would have to do more research.

I would be buying it to be a shooter. It's light and handy and a nice link to the past. I will likely replace the wood.

Thanks!

 

[MMCSRET]

My reference agrees: 1909

 

[Jim Watson]

What's with the guessing game?
Is there an asking price?
Are you searching for an offer to make out of the blue?

Collector value is nil.
Shooting value is dependent on the mechanical condition of the gun, action and bore.
If the stock is so bad or ugly that you already plan on replacing it, I would call the value LOW. Hundred dollars, how's that?

 

[Malamute]

Rifle or carbine?


If rifle, round barrel or octagon? Standard length (26") or special order? If not standard length, was it factory or modified after leaving the factory?


If carbine, what length barrel? Does it have a "saddle ring"?


If the finish is good, it doesnt neccesarliy mean it was a refinish. It could be original, unless there's evidence of polishing and usually disturbing the markings.

 

[ReadyontheRight]

I am wondering if a 100-year old Winchester is a "WOW! buy it!" rifle if it's under $200 and not a rusty piece of junk.

Or do you see them all the time? I've never seen one that old outside a collection or high-priced at a gun show, so I've never paid much attention to older 1894s before.

I am hoping someone has a gun value book to tell me the range of values for this rifle. I am not looking at it as a collectable, but I am curious about values. I am guessing more than $100, but I don't know. That's why I am asking the question. I am thinking to offer $150.

I'm also looking for a "look out for 'X' on those old Winchesters" if there's anything to look at beyond a standard lever-gun check-out.

It is a plain jane, round barrel, rifle length - I assume 26" barrel. No saddle ring. Top eject, of couse. Seems a bit lighter than more modern 1894s I've shot. No rust or pitting.

I will probably see it again sometime this week and get more info.

Thanks!

 

[mnrivrat]

I am wondering if a 100-year old Winchester is a "WOW! buy it!" rifle if it's under $200 and not a rusty piece of junk.

And the answer to that is YES !

If it is in good shooting condition, a rough 1909 Winchester is still worth as much if not more than a nice 1999 Model 94. The reason is character, and a much better fit of parts. $200 is a steal for the gun unless something realy major is wrong with it.

 

[Malamute]

Since you've put numbers on it, yes, thats a steal. Even "rusty pieces of junk" in early Winchesters bring more than that. Any shooting grade gun will bring at least $300, on the low end, and I've seen them sell "happily" for the buyer, as parts guns, but functional, up to the $700 range. Original condition, even without much finish, tend to bring at least that much, and up depending on if any special order features or unusual configuration is present.


Are you familiar with the difference between a rifle and a carbine? carbines have bands that encircle the entire forend and barrel, and magazine tube and barrel, and were standard with 20" barrels. Rifles have a "cap on the end of the forend, (and doesnt go over the top of the barrel), and a ring on the underside of the barrel to hold the magazine tube, but does not go over the top of the barrel. This is the standard configuration and nomenclature of Winchester. Barrels could be special ordered in non-standard lengths in both rifles and carbines. They were still callled a rifle or carbine depending on configuration, not barrel length. In other words, a short(er) rifle was called,...a short rifle, not a carbine. "Standard" barrel for a rifle of the period was 26", and round was considered "standard", but most rifles were shipped with octagon barrels, so, the round barrel rifle was a little more unusual.


Clear pictures would help tremendously in determining any value. If you can buy it fairly cheaply, you arent likely to get hurt tho.

 

[ReadyontheRight]

Thanks guys! Very useful info on the carbine/rifle and special factory orders.

I am pretty sure that it's a rifle, not a carbine.

 

[10X]

Sure buy it if it looks safe to fire. The .30 WCF means .30 Winchester Center Fire the old name for the .30-30 Winchester.

Have fun with it.

 

[ReadyontheRight]

Now that I know and I have looked at some pictures online, I am pretty sure it's a carbine rather than a rifle.

 

[ReadyontheRight]

I bought it for $171.04 with tax from a gun shop.

20" carbine. I now think the metal is original and NOT re-blued. The wood has a crack on the bottom of the forearm and has some kind of filler at the top corners where the forearm meets the receiver. It's actually not as bad as I originally thought, but new wood would be good. Ugly padded buttpad. Action needs a lot of cleaning. The front dovetail sight is tiny and very hard to acquire unless against a black background.

Pics to follow and a range report when I get to the range. An hour away so it will take a while.

Bottom line - I would not hesitate to clean it up, take it out to the range and use for deer hunting. Not bad for a 100-year-old rifle that was manufactured while John Moses Browning was alive.

Thanks for the info everyone! Great old gun!

 

[SGW42]

Pics!

 

[ReadyontheRight]

Here are some pics. Beat up stocks and an ugly buttpad.

I have not cleaned it up yet. The action is pretty good, but there is some crud in it, so it will get better. Bore is shiney and the muzzle looks good.

 

[Malamute]

You did OK, but it looks like it's a parts gun. The barrel isnt original to the period, the ramp sight and markings being from a later period. The magazine tube is also cut back. It looks like it was originally a carbine, the sling ring (saddle ring) hole has a filler screw. If it's mechanically sound, theres no reason not to enjoy it. The price was good. I've paid more for parts (not totalling a gun).

 

[ReadyontheRight]

I was wondering about that hole. Is there any reason I can't put a saddle ring back on it? I've seen some cheap on e-Bay.

Is it common to put a new barrel on these? It seems like a brand new gun would have been cheaper and easier than changing barrels up until the price went up a few years ago. And why would they cut the magazine?

It's a shooter (like all my guns), so I don't care about the parts. Good to know what it is. Thanks for the info!

"What do ya say, is it the new Bluesrifle or what?"
"Needs a new saddle ring"

 

[SGW42]

I'd flush all the gunk out of the action (maybe have a smith check it out to OK it good to fire) and then take it to the range and shoot the heck out of it!

I'd ditch the buttpad. Sure it'd be easy to find a period replacement plate.

 

[ReadyontheRight]

I'd ditch the buttpad. Sure it'd be easy to find a period replacement plate.

That's what I was thinking. that butt pad is U-G-L-Y. I am hoping that the stock was not shortened.

I will probably get new stocks if I stumble across some, but these actaully are not as bad as I thought.

 

[Malamute]

You can put a saddle ring back on it, tho they are noisy and annoying for the most part, and scratch the blue on the receiver. Theres a good reason so many were cut off or otherwise removed. The one you want has a 1/4" thread size, not the tiny shank ones put on modern guns as decorations. I've removed the rings from the Brownings and Winchesters that had them when I get them. I dislike them. Greatly.


No telling when the barrel was put on, but it looks like about a 1940s, from the markings (there will also be a date stamped on the bottom of the barrel if you take the mag and forend off), and if the flat band is from the same time. The flat front bands were a wartime thing, just a cheap finish time saver. They seem to have a cult following for some reason. Odd.

Barrels can often be had for very cheap, so it would have been cheaper than a new gun. I've seen and bought them for $20 or less even fairly recently. One was given me when I bought some other parts. The one on your gun was probably a better one than was originally on the gun, it may have been allowed to get rusted or pitted badly. Mag tube could have been dented or damaged, one of the old ones I had was cut back a few inches also. Just no telling what happened in the last 60 or 100 years. A new mag tube should be less than $20.


Hang out over at leverguns forum and you may turn up some usable wood if you want to upgrade it some.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

Other than the damage above the lower band, that is not a bad stock. But then, I'm used to battlefield relics.

You could do a better wood repair job yourself. Try it, junk the rubber butt and replace it with a period steel piece, replace the sights with period sights if you can do so easily and cheaply (if not, screw it) and you've got a decent old rifle with lots of character.

I agree with Malamut's comments re: vestigial saddle rings.

 

[paintballdude902]

its got character lol

id get a new mag for it and leave it be looks like a nice old gun that someone tried to customize