1911 improvements

[Blakenzy]

Throughout the past century the 1911 autoloader has gone through a lot of changes. In the past 10-15 years there has been a marked increase in production of this style pistol. I think it is fair to say that almost every major firearms manufacturer (at least in the US) has produced some form of this pistol, and most have added their own signature improvement to supposedly make their product better than the competition.

Now here's the topic for debate: What would you say are the Top Five improvements introduced for the 1911 up to date?

For the sake of this discussion, let us assume that any pistol marketed as a 1911 is a bonafide 1911. Please do not start with the whole "The only true 1911 is the USGI M1911 .45 cal". Include any variation you like such as size, frame material, caliber, sights, safeties, magazines, etc. Include any variation from any period in time. If you are rather knowledgeable on the 1911 (and I know a lot of you here are), please include the date of introduction of said variation. Lord knows there are a lot to choose from

As a final note, if you want to, share your opinion on which specie/variation/flavor of the 1911 is the be-all-end-all 1911.

BTW: The 1911 is my all time favorite pistol and there are some variations or "improvements" out there that make me sick , but ignore that and write down what ever you like

 

[RNB65]

Beavertail grip safety

 

[Jim Watson]

I am kind of with Jeff Cooper on that.
Sights you can see - there are a LOT of choices there and have been since the 1930s or earlier.
A trigger you can control- usualy takes gunsmith work, the factories can't do it. Return to the long trigger and flat mainspring housing as aiming instead of pointing is emphasized.
Removal of sharp corners that would make handling the gun unpleasant- again, usually a gunsmith job in this era of crisp CNC machining.

Otherwise, the most beneficial things to me have been the beavertail grip safety, and for occasions when reloading is important (usually in competition), the magazine well funnel and extended magazine catch.

 

[DogBonz]

my five

1. Beavertail grip safety
2. ramped barrels
3. Nitesights
4. Pachmyer combat grips
5. Me

 

[jungle]

Sights that can actually be seen.

Modern alloys and more precise heat treatment. Stainless and Corrosion resistant finishes.

Modern CNC based equipment to keep the cost reasonable and precision high.

Modern Casting alloys and techniques.

Excellent quality magazines.

The best 1911 style pistols ever made are being built today. Improved manufacturing methods allow them to be affordable and make them tougher.
Yes, there are also some "less well built", but they are in the minority.

Excellent pistols are being made by Colt, Springfield, S&W, SIG, and others. the variety and quality has never been better.

 

[SuperNaut]

1. Patent Expiration (led to aftermarket innovation)
2. Rise of IDPA (led to even more aftermarket innovation)
3. Beavertail safety
4. Double-stack mags (arguably this makes the firearm non-1911).
5. Alloy frames

I view the 1911 like I view Harley Davidson. It is a solid platform upon which you can build almost whatever you can dream up. From a GI style stocker to a high-maintenance competition drag-racer.

 

[Geno]

"Improvements"

I'm more inclined to call them "improvements" than genuine improvements. Target sights have been around for decades. I guess you can consider tritium an improvement, but not to target shooting, that to defense. The addition of external extractors didn't seem an improvement to me. I am staunch traditionalist. Give me a bare-bones 1911, checker the front-strap and hard-chrome it. Save for that, I just can't see where there is much room for genuine "improvements". That aside, I think people just enjoy tinkering with their 1911s, and so to legitimate it, it is called improvement. I guess if you're talking defense, the addition of an integral rail for a light can be considered an improvement. But, it doesn't improve target shooting. I guess stating the intended purpose for one's 1911 is the first step: target or defense. Just my two cents.

Doc2005

 

[Spartacus451]

Sights, trigger, magwell, checkering on front strap/backstrap. Your done. This happens to describe my competition guns to the letter.

 

[1911Tuner]

Improvements

Creature comfort/Tactical bells and whistles aside...your money is best spent on:

Good sights, even though you may not have time to use them in a kill/be killed situation.

A decent trigger that breaks clean without being "itchy." A 3-pound target trigger is a liability on a street gun. 5 pounds...clean, with a light rollout break will do.

Dehorning. Not necesary to have a full melt job, but a pistol that cuts skin and clothing becomes a chore.

Reliability work done by someone who knows how. One malfunction in 500 rounds is too much. Confidence drops exponentially. One in 2 thousand is gettin' there. Not sterling performance, but viable. Ask yourself this: If you bought a bulk lot of ammunition and had one misfire or hangfire every 500 rounds...would you carry that particular lot in a defensive pistol? No? Then accept no less from the pistol. If it hangs up at a critical moment, it's worse than a misfire. Misfires can be cleared quickly. Some stoppages can't. A correctly functioning 1911 pistol will break your checkbook in the attempt to buy enough good ammo to make it malfunction.

Magazines are critical. Don't cheap out on those. Buy the best and test them all. High-dollar or big name is no guarantee of a good magazine.

By and large, fully 95% of all malfunctions can be traced directly to three things. Magazine. Extractor. Ammo. Bet-your-life reliability in a 1911 pistol is relatively simple and easy to get.

A spare pistol that is as close to an exact twin to the one that you carry.
Practice with one and hold the other for serious purposes. When one is down for maintenance or repair, the second one insures continuity. Two spares is even better. Pick the most reliable of the bunch for carry and treat if kindly.
Use the other two for practice. Stick to one manual of arms, and practice a lot. If you have to reach for the gun in a hurry in a dark alley, you want to feel like you're shaking hands with an old friend, not wasting critical time trying to remember which way the safety works.

This is good logic for any platform that you choose...be it 1911, Glock, H&K, Sig...or High Point.

Just my 2% of a buck...

 

[45auto]

High grip beavertails
Extended thumb safety
Better sights
Overall, much better quality control than 15 years ago.
Much greater selection, options and diversity of 1911s available.

A lot of those improvements date back more than 15 years, but you didn't have the selection and availability on production guns. You had to have a custom smith.

I think you can credit Kimber for the "rebirth" of production 1911s.

 

[DogBonz]

Maybe, or...

I think you can credit Kimber for the "rebirth" of production 1911s.

You can "credit" the AWB that limited mags to 10 rounds. I think that a lot of folks thought "I can have 10 rounds of 9mm or 8 rounds of 45" thats a no brainer in my book. Let us not forget why the 1911 fell out of main-stream popularity in the first place, the wonder-9 craze... You don't need an 1911 when you have 17 rounds of 9mm, right

 

[45auto]

There are more 1911s sold now than ever, and you can buy all the high capacity guns and mags you want in most states...at least for now.

 

[jkomp316]

I'm more of a Beretta fan myself, its been 20yrs and I still hear "the slide is gonna break off and hit you in the face" comments. Or "the locking block breaks after 5,000rds" comments.

 

[DogBonz]

what i said was

There are more 1911s sold now than ever, and you can buy all the high capacity guns and mags you want in most states...at least for now.

What I said was that the AWB was responsible for the “rebirth” of the 1911, not for sustaining the craze. The reason for the sustained and, in fact, increasing sales of 1911’s is due to, IMHO, its superior design and that lends its self extremely well to being customized. The booming aftermarket for parts is just as responsible for increased 1911 sales as increased 1911 sales are responsible for the booming aftermarket. Kind of a “chicken and egg” scenario.
Also, the increasing number of CCW friendly states has contributed to the 1911s rebirth. They are great for CCW. They are thin and flat, thus easier to conceal.

 

[DogBonz]

Oh Yea,

And Das028…

Tupper ware is for left over mac and cheese. Steel is for guns.

It’s a simple equation.

P.S. Gaston ripped of HK.

 

[Phenom]

One that was my fault. I fully loaded a brand new magazine plus one in the chamber. For the rest of the session I only loaded 7rds in the magazine and the 1911 ran perfectly from then on. As you know brand new magazines need left fully loaded for a few days to let the spring take a set. Doesn't matter what brand the pistol is, none will be reliable with a fully loaded magazine that's not broken in.

 

[jkomp316]

I have never seen, or had, a 1911 jam that was shooting 230grain round nose fmj's. When peope try to run hollow points or wadcutters, then the problems happen. The gun was made to shoot 230grain fmjs, stick with them and you'll be fine. Glocks have always seemed "the best" in 9mm platforms, If i bought one, it would be a 9mm. Thats what they were originally desinged for. I have never heard of a Glock Kb in a 9mm.

 

[1911Tuner]

Hold!

Okay guys. A new member asked a few questions about what improvements could be made to the NINETEEN ELEVEN PLATFORM in order to insure its viability as a SD sidearm. He didn't invite a bashfest. If you want an argument about which is da big cheese of da pistol world...start a thread, and I'll jump in and have a blast along with ya...but this one is his. Stop with the hijack already.

And yes, das...I'll pit one of my well abused range beaters OR one of my carry pistols against your Glock. You get to pick. Come play follow the leader with me. Bring mucho ammo and a friend to keep the mags loaded. First one to choke or break pays for the ammo and the barbecue.

Any takers? Name the day.

 

[1911Tuner]

re:

Blakenzy...Apologies for allowing your thread to drift so far off-topic. Ask your questions and they'll be answered.

Welcome aboard.

 

[the pistolero]

If you want an argument about which is da big cheese of da pistol world...start a thread, and I'll jump in and have a blast along with ya...but this one is his. Stop with the hijack already.

Hear, hear!
I like the ambi safety (being the lefty that I am) and night sights on my Kimber. I can take or leave the front cocking serrations, though. I think the sights & safety would be the only modification I'd make to a stripped-down model like the Springer GI, though, because as far as I am concerned, other than that the 1911 is just about perfect (oh yeah, in at LEAST .40S&W, or 10mm Auto if ya got the cash), Glock fanboys' opinions notwithstanding.
And as far as THAT goes? Glocks are great pistols. If you handed me one and told me I could keep it as, say, my truck gun, I'd be pleased as punch. They're just not my preferred platform, though, and I'll not apologize for that.
/threadjack

 

[Sry0fcr]

1. Ramped barrels
2. Night sights
3. Alloy Frames
4. CNC machining
5. One-piece backstrap

My perfect 1911 would be something similar to a Wilson KZ-45 compact sans the grip safety and maybe a bit shorter grip.

 

[noresttill]

Bobtail?

 

[Johnny Guest]

The initial post in this thread was a good, logical, question.

To those who tried to reply in the spirit of the original question, thank you.

To those who knowingly initiated thread veer and off-topic replies - - well, you should know better.

For those who jumped right into brand-bashing, I hope it was worth your while, just as a typing exercise, because they are NOT preserved for posterity. Go back and take a look - - Many of the entries seem to have disappeared.

Please take this as an advisory: Bashing, trolling, blatantly off-topic, argumentative, and provcative posts will not be tolerated. In the spirit of allowing open discussion on the original topic, the thread remains open.

Thank you all for your cooperation.

Johnny Guest
Moderator, Handguns: Autoloaders

 

[Black Majik]

Thanks Johnny for keeping this open. It certainly can be a great topic.

I follow similar to Cooper's standard of necessary features on a 1911. Keyword is similiar
- Useful sights with a sight picture I like.
- Dehorned edges, especially the sights. Sharp sights can make a gun difficult to rack quickly.
- Good trigger, weight doesn't really matter as long as its CRISP. I'd rather have a 5 lbs trigger with
- Front strap checkering.
- Extended thumb safety. Helps with riding the safety and easier to click off

Ever since really getting into 1911s, I've realized that I also want
- Undercut trigger guard. It's amazing how much more comfortable the gun is with an undercut trigger. Because the gun sits lower in the hand, recoil seems to be less.
- Magwell. Helps quite well with reloads
- Beavertail that allows the gun to sit lower.
- Thin front cocking serrations. Blashphemy I know, but it does help with press checking.


I don't require night sights, unless they're on a defensive handgun. Don't care about skeleton hammers, flattened top of the slide, extended slide stops, full length guide rods, red dot sights or the latest wonder finish.

Of course, this is with a 1911 that is accurate and reliable. Those are priority. I'm not much of a bells and whistles type, but I do know what I need now on a 1911. I started the 1911 venture on a bone stock Colt Government, and I still appreciate it very much. Because I started on a stock 1911, I've come to realize over the years what features benefit me, and what features I find to be just fluff and buff...

of course YMMV.

 

[ugaarguy]

As I've set out to buy a carry 1911 (which is now purchased and awaiting my return from overseas) I looked into certain major things. Much of what I was looking for is because of reading post by 1991Tuner, Old Fuff, and several other folks here on THR who truly know the weapon. All machined internals were a must. Low snag sights were also a requirement. Everything else was preference. Here are, in my limited experience opinion, the top five things that improved the 1911.

1) Novak and similar low profile/snag resistant, high visibility sights
2) The Commander size frame. Shaves just enough off the bbl. to make ole slabsides a bit more carryable without running into reliability problems.
3) Beavertail grip safeties (not necessarily high ride) for comfort.
4) Extended Thumb Safeties for ease of use
5) Availabililty of other calibers such as 9mm for things like cheaper and softer shooting; and 10mm, 460 Roland, etc. for ramped up performance to hunt, shoot long range targets, etc.