1911 Mangling Brass = Dirty/Weak Mags?

[ScratchnDent]

Hi guys, I'm hoping to pick your brains for a little help diagnosing a small problem.

I have a SW1911 that, until now, has been flawless. I have ~9,000 rounds through the gun, and the recoil spring is a Smith & Wesson 16.5 lb'er that was changed about 1,000 rounds back.

The issue is, it's recently started smashing the last round on ejection, with several different magazines. It appears as though the slide is trying to close on it before it clears the ejection port. The strange part is, none of them have actually jammed in the gun. The slide locks open, and the brass usually lands at my feet. Maybe the slide is bouncing back off of the brass and then locking?

It first happened with both of my regular range mags last week. I figured they were just dirty or tired, so I cleaned them well inside and out, and they seem fine so far, but 2 of my carry mags did the same thing today, and they don't get nearly the use and abuse of my range mags, so I was thinking maybe something else is causing this? That's where you guys come in.

 

[1911Tuner]

Extractor problem. Since Smith & Wesson elected to go against what worked for nearly a century with the external-type extractor, your best bet is to replace the extractor and the spring that powers it.

 

[ScratchnDent]

Extractor problem.

Ugh...not what I wanted to hear, but that makes perfect sense.

Thanks!

 

[poco loco]

hey, that looks like my brass :/

I don't know if you remember a while back I had the exact same issue in my Springfield Milspec basic 1911a1. Never did solve the problem as I determined that it only happened on the surplus ammo I have and reloads worked fine with never a brass crunch whether mild or mildly hot, hand cast round and semiwads worked like a charm.....

A buddy still has it so I'd like to know is the extractor possibly the fault in mine/his also?

IIrc I was never able to post a pic of my brass and I just switched ammo ..Thanks in advance again, you provide a great service here imo and I really appreciate it.....

Poco

 

[1911Tuner]

Never did solve the problem as I determined that it only happened on the surplus ammo I have and reloads worked fine with never a brass crunch whether mild or mildly hot,

As brass goes through multiple fire/reload cycles, the rims tend to grow in diameter...which effectively increases extractor tension. The bullet style or shape has nothing to do with ejection, nor does the power factor as long as the slide makes full travel...aside from the distance the brass flies from the port.

 

[VinnAY]

I had an identical problem with my pistol and pretty much solved it by lessening the tension on my extractor and minor touching with a file to the extended ejector (I have a GI with the high ejection port). At that time I had 16lb and 23lb springs in the gun. I got a 14lb recoils spring and 19lb main spring just to try out. After that, I had about 5 of 100+ firings that the brass was still mangled such as yours. I'm putting the "stock" rate springs back in it and see if that's where the problem was this time. But I still have brass going every which way out of the gun, but she doesn't have a stoppage/jam.

 

[ScratchnDent]

I definitely don't think I have too much extractor tension. I took the slide off the gun and slid a snap cap under the extractor, against the breech face. It holds it in place, flat, but just barely. A little nudge with my finger tip knocks it loose. The tip of the extractor is obviously worn, so I guess it's time for me to find out just how good S&W's customer service is.

 

[1911Tuner]

Scratch...Snap caps don't normally come with rims that are to spec, and they aren't a good tool for a tension test.

About 90% of the time, a pistol that destroys the last round like that is due to the extractor clocking in its bore and dropping the case...even with good tension.

The mechanics of the malfunction are that the case falls low on the breechface as it comes out of the chamber. The extractor claw still has a grip on the rim, and as it drags it back, it compresses the magazine follower and causes a failure to lock the slide.

In extreme cases...like yours...the empty case is actually stuffed partway back into the magazine, at which point, the extractor claw lets go. The slide...failing to lock because the follower is depressed...returns to battery and tries to feed the empty case that's barely held by the magazine lips. It gets crushed between the slide and the barrel hood. If you'll do a little jigsaw puzzlin' you can fit the two crunched areas perfectly with the hood.

Sometimes...but not reliably...adding a little tension can keep the extractor squared up.
Most of the time, that doesn't work very well, and while it might prevent the problem 95% of the time...it never really goes away until you address the reason that the extractor rolls around in its channel.

 

[VinnAY]

When my gun did it it was with a brand new EGW FPS (the squared off one) that I fit myself...it is tight enough that it lovingly needs to be seated with hammer and punch. Not driving it in mind you, but it's tight. For that reason I'd think that the new extractor wouldn't be able to clock...is that still possible?

 

[1911Tuner]

Not driving it in mind you, but it's tight. For that reason I'd think that the new extractor wouldn't be able to clock...is that still possible

Yep. If the extractor channel is located too far to the right...or the slot in the extractor is too deep...the edge of the firing pin stop can't reach the bottom of the slot in the extractor, and it can clock.

An extractor hook that's been beveled too heavily at the bottom and too far up into the tensioning wall can drop the case after extraction and before reaching the ejector... and mimic a clocking extractor.

More rare, but still possible is that the frame bed is low...or has had too much material removed in order to create barrel drop clearance...can also mimic the problem when the barrel drops before the case has cleared the chamber...forcing the case downward and out of control of the extractor claw.
Ths is normally seen with an extractor that's been beveled a little to facilitate pickup during the feeding phase, but can also occur with an untuned extractor.

 

[VinnAY]

I think I found my mistake with the FPS, I fit it to the slide with the extractor inplace rather than fit it to the slide FIRST, THEN with the FPS inplace. Without the extractor inplace, the FPS just falls right out...lesson learned. Also I was able to work the extractor tension with an empty case. The contact with the extractor was the only thing holding the FPS in the slide. I share this to help the OP since my gun is/was doing the same thing as his.

 

[ScratchnDent]

Appreciated, but mine is a Smith & Wesson with an external extractor.

Last I heard, S&W won't sell the extractor, so I think my only real option is to send the gun to them.