1911 or Hi-Power?

[Alan Fud]

Both were designed by the same man. The Hi-Power came later and it has been said that it contained improvements over the 1911 design? Can anyone comment on what these "improvements" were?

I own several 1911's and I use to own a Hi-Power before trading it in and I actually prefer the 1911 design over a hi-power design -- better safety, better trigger, grip safety that the BHP doesn't have, etc.

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. I think they're both fine designs though I 've never bought into the idea that the P35 was intended as the successor to the 1911. Other than the dropping barrel and sear blocking thumb safety, they're so entirely different that I don't see any evolution. It seems that when Colt began producing the 1911 they would have patent rights as well. I sort of believe that John Browning just took out a clean piece of paper to do the Hi Power and that Saive, who had nothing to do with the 1911, finished up what is a very fine pistol that stands on its own merit.

I suspect that you are in the majority in your preference of the 1911 over the Hi Power as the former is certainly more popular today than the P35.

Best.

 

[keederdag]

I'd have to agree with Steve; but the 1911 is most likely only more popular in the U.S. Most other places in the world, I think you'd find a preference for the P35.

 

[Alan Fud]

keederdag, that's my point -- what is there about the P35 that makes it favored over the 1911 in a majority of places? It can't be just the caliber because the 1911 design can and has been made in other calibers.

 

[Rob96]

To me the 1911 feels a lot better in my hand.

 

[harrydog]

Of course it's the caliber.

 

[Kevinch]

Of course it's the caliber.

What Harry said

Of course, I think every handgun owner needs at least one of each!!

 

[Sean Smith]

Both guns started as military contract guns, 1911 for the U.S. and what would become the BHP for the French. Both had designs dictated by the militaries in question, and Colt owned the patents for the 1911 so he sort of had to work around them. And of course Browning died before the BHP design was completed. So I think to say that the BHP was Browning's "ultimate" design is a bit silly.

The BHP doing away with the bushing, link and pin are probably improvements. The trigger system and magazine safety are definitely NOT improvements.

 

[MrAcheson]

Its really a 9mm vs .45acp question. In the US the 1911 is really popular because of its trigger, grip, caliber, and history. In most of the rest of the world, its the other way around because the hipower (or clone) was their service pistol.

The barrel lockup of the hipower is more modern than the 1911, but the trigger is worse and the other ergonomics are a wash between them. So it usually comes down to caliber. I wouldn't bother with a 9mm or .40 1911 (10mm yes, .40 no). I wouldn't want a .45 hipower either.

 

[George Hill]

I've found that generally the HP is more reliable that the 1911.
Just an observation.

Take a look at an entry level GM... Springfield, Kimber, Colt... who ever. Your looking at about 550 to 600. Not bad.
Take a look at an entry level HP... FEG, Argintine, and now CD. 200 to 400.

Then look at the cost of ammo... 9MM v .45 tends to lean to the 9MM as the economic way of shooting. In fact, 9MM is getting so cheap that if you want cheaper, you have to go all the way down to .22.

Spare mags and parts are about the same... so if you want bang for your buck, it's all about the HP.

Charles Daly's new HP is looking very good... A "Practical" example of what an HP can be with a little work, and it comes with that work already done. The only question is how is CD going to release it with it's roll markings. Subdued or Gawdy? I like rollmarks to be minimal. Some of the pictures of the CDHP have scared me off it, but then again, I am still waiting to see one in person.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

I think the BHP is an inferior design, with the whole trigger linkage through the slide thing. That said, it's probably my second choice in autopistols.


I look at the lack of a bushing, link and pin as weaknesses, as now all the parts likely to break are expensive.

the only real advantage the BHP has is a lack of stupid grip screw bushings.

 

[BHPshooter]

I remember once hearing a quote that says "They use the 1911 for the caliber; they use the BHP for the gun."

That's not supposed to be a dig on the 1911, just an observation. I sure love them both.

Cheers,
Wes

 

[care-less]

"Both were designed by the same man" ???? I don't think so! John Browning had little or nothing to do with the Hi-Power. He did up a couple of wooden models around 1926, died in 1927; Saive developed the double stack mag, took some of Brownings ideas, and designed the Hi-Power. FN merely capitalized on Brownings fame and stuck his name on a pistol that wasn't out until 8yrs after his death. HP is more popular in the rest of the world because 9mm is more popular. 1911 is more popular here because 45 is more popular.

 

[harrydog]

I'm not even sure .45 caliber is more popular here in the USA than 9mm. It might be pretty close.
But it isn't even remotely close as to which gun is more popular.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Both good, get both.

I think I've never really understood the need for a barrel bushing, except for the fact that the Colt has a swinging link and the barrel needs a little more slop to get back into place. The HP doesn't do the same thing the same way.. so no bushing.

To me less parts = less stuff to go wrong.

Maybe its just me... but I've never seen a COLT extractor, or HP extractor break. Can't imagine BREAKING a barrel bushing without potentially blowing up the barrel as well.

The mag disconnector can be removed in about a new york minute with the most primitive of tools. It was a Browning thing, as several of his other designs have it.

So many modern designs use the HP's tilt-up barrel and I can't think of anything that isn't a 1911 that uses the 1911 system.

The original safety sucked. Get a bigger one. Anyone who owns a 1911 eventually starts adding fins and do-dads anyway.

Neat thing: BHP take down is as simple as it gets. Lock slide on second notch, push out slide sop. DONE. Thats a Big improvement over the Colt's cock it, lock it, depress the plunger rotate halfway to release the barrel bushing then unlock and push back slide to a 'not so easy to hit on a new gun' detent to release the slide stop, now pour all parts into bucket, hope you don't lose/drop one.

The early Colt had mediocre sights, the early hi-powers had... well "optimistic" tangent sights, but they were adjustable.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

The solid bushing's never break, but they can wear out and get loose. it's an easy fix to replace them. the link allows for adjustment of the lockup. this is not possible on the BHP. also, the link usually breaks before the barrel does.

 

[keederdag]

I own several of both, Andrew, I have never seen a broken barrel on a HP, but I have seen plenty of broken barrel links. If I had to pick, I'd go with the HP for longevity over the 1911. Most standard Gov. model 1911's are picky about ammo, not particularly reliable and they have way too many part's that tend to break; they are also not really all that great in the accuracy dept. I SAID STANDARD SO DONT START WITH ME! Even a sloppy old BHP will still print combat acceptable groups; whereas a sloppy 1911 is bound to shoot like a blunderbuss and that is only if it still works. 1911's need more maintenence than The GP-35. I'll also bet that if you look at commercial ammo sales a whole lot more 9mm is sold than .45. I think most guy's who shoot a lot of .45 load, which means that for the average joe, 9mm is a much better choice simply because you can practice economically. A .500 Limbaugh will do you little good, if you can't hit crap with it.