20 gauge vs 12 gauge recoil

[Targa]

I often hear about “perceived/felt recoil” and equations about them. I am more of a simple minded person and just know that when using similar shotguns both mine and my wife’s shoulders appreciate the 20 over 12 after a day of sporting clays...

 

[entropy]

I've been trying to find the powder weight of 20 gauge Remington sluggers but to no avail. Do y'all know where I can find such information ?

Here's that 20 gauge

OUCH!

 

[George P]

I often hear about “perceived/felt recoil” and equations about them. I am more of a simple minded person and just know that when using similar shotguns both mine and my wife’s shoulders appreciate the 20 over 12 after a day of sporting clays...

There is no equation about perceived recoil because it is just that PERCEIVED. How You perceive the recoil and how I perceive the same recoil is purely subjective and where body size and mass, gun fit, etc. all come into play.

My wife shoots a 12 gauge Beretta A400 using my 3/4oz (28 gauge level) reloads and shoot 100-150 rounds each time without issue. Two reasons - heavy gun with light loads in a gas action and the shims make the gun FIT her

 

[Sistema1927]

For my 14th Christmas, my folks bought me a single shot Winchester 12 ga.Model 37A, along with a couple of boxes of "Max Dram" 1 oz #6s. No recoil pad, full choke.

I rushed out to the desert, and popped off a few rounds. They were robust, especially since the only shotgun I had fired before was Dad's 1897 16 ga., and he always used low brass rounds.

However, it was mine, and I wasn't going to complain about recoil. I shot many a West Texas jack rabbit and plenty of quail and doves with it prior to buying an SKB O/U while in college.

 

[danez71]

I have Maverick 88's in both 20 and 12 and a 18" OC barrel for each.

Ive shot both side by side with and with out a limbsaver using both cheap slugs and cheap buckshot. (I think still have some of each of the 4 kinds.)

The 20 has less felt recoil.



Hasn't it been discussed here something to the effect of the 20 delivers 80% of the payload with only 60% of the recoil as compared to 12ga?

 

[Bill M.]

The 6 lb 12 gauge is going to be a real killer with hunting loads.

Put some 3" shells in the 20 gauge and it will get up there with the 12.

I am too lazy to look up the recoil calculator and numbers. I own a single shot 20 gauge, a single shot 12 gauge, a 6.5 lb 12 gauge O/U, and a 6 lb 16 gauge pump. I do not shoot any of them much with full loads anymore.

Went dove hunting with a friend one day. He brought a 20 gauge pump and 3 inch shells. After I got my limit he asked to borrow my gun to finish his limit because he said he just did not want to shoot his gun any more that day.

 

[George P]

I have Maverick 88's in both 20 and 12 and a 18" OC barrel for each.

Ive shot both side by side with and with out a limbsaver using both cheap slugs and cheap buckshot. (I think still have some of each of the 4 kinds.)

The 20 has less felt recoil.



Hasn't it been discussed here something to the effect of the 20 delivers 80% of the payload with only 60% of the recoil as compared to 12ga?

If you want to know what the actual real recoil is, google the shotgun recoil calculator I mentioned above, plug in the numbers and you'll know for certain.

 

[DocRock]

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Hasn't it been discussed here something to the effect of the 20 delivers 80% of the payload with only 60% of the recoil as compared to 12ga?

A lighter gun shooting the same payload as a heavier gun cannot deliver less recoil. Physics.

A lighter gun shooting the same payload but that fits better than the heavier gun may seem to deliver less recoil. But it doesn't. Physics

A lighter gun shooting a lighter payload will, at some point as the payload diminishes, deliver less recoil. The shotgun recoil calculator referred to above can provide the exact load at which this happens.

These are not matters about which one can have a valid opinion. They are facts, immutable and constant: A 1 oz load from a 7.5 lbs 12 ga will deliver less recoil than a 1oz load from a 6.5 lbs 20 ga (at roughly the same fps) every single time each is fired, every day, for every body. It never, ever changes. One may have an opinion about how one feels versus the other. But opinions are like...belly buttons.

 

[danez71]

A lighter gun shooting the same payload as a heavier gun cannot deliver less recoil. Physics.

A lighter gun shooting the same payload but that fits better than the heavier gun may seem to deliver less recoil. But it doesn't. Physics

A lighter gun shooting a lighter payload will, at some point as the payload diminishes, deliver less recoil. The shotgun recoil calculator referred to above can provide the exact load at which this happens.

These are not matters about which one can have a valid opinion. They are facts, immutable and constant: A 1 oz load from a 7.5 lbs 12 ga will deliver less recoil than a 1oz load from a 6.5 lbs 20 ga (at roughly the same fps) every single time each is fired, every day, for every body. It never, ever changes. One may have an opinion about how one feels versus the other. But opinions are like...belly buttons.

Is that supposed to be relevant to what you quoted me saying?

I ask because I never said anything about same payload... in fact, quite the opposite.

 

[DocRock]

Is that supposed to be relevant to what you quoted me saying?

I ask because I never said anything about same payload... in fact, quite the opposite.

What part of its relevance is unclear? I don't understand why a statement of physical laws hurts your feelings. It simply cannot be said that a "20 ga delivers 80% of the payload with only 60% of the recoil". That would depend on the payloads in question and the weights of the guns in question.

The advantage of the 20 ga is that on a properly scaled frame, it weighs less than a 12 ga, is easier to carry, and can still deliver an acceptable amount of shot and decent pattern. At the cost of higher recoil. This was the precise reason why the mid-20th Century was so in love with the 16ga as a bird gun. The 1 ounce "square load" in a scaled frame gun represented the optimal trade off against a 12ga. The only way that a 20 ga delivers less recoil than a 12ga is with a difference in shot weight and a much less significant weight of gun, or with an absurdly light 12ga gun. Why this should upset you is a mystery.

 

[jmr40]

1 oz of shot recoils pretty much the same regardless of whether it is fired from a 12 or 20 ga. It really depends on the load you use. In my experience a typical field load 12 ga load is 1 1/8 oz and a typical 20 ga is 7/8 oz. And in the real world most 20's will weigh about 1 full pound less than a 12 if you're looking at similar action types and barrel lengths. With that in mind recoil is so close that you'd have a hard time telling the difference.

But you can get loads all over the place. You can get 2 3/4" or 3" 20's and up to 3 1/2" 12 ga shells. And the weight of the shot can vary from 3/4 oz to 2 oz with a lot of overlap. I can get 7/8 oz, 1 oz, and 1 1/4 oz loads in both 12 and 20. If you're shooting the same load it will recoil more from the lighter gun.

 

[danez71]

What part of its relevance is unclear?

My comment you quoted was about ' not the same ' and your reply to my quote was if I was comparing the ' same '.

So, the relevance is unclear of the whole part of your post when your reply doesn't pertain to what you quoted of me.

 

[DocRock]

My comment you quoted was about ' not the same ' and your reply to my quote was if I was comparing the ' same '.

So, the relevance is unclear of the whole part of your post when your reply doesn't pertain to what you quoted of me.

It does apply. It is relevant. And you didn't read.

 

[George P]

Running the calculator I took a 6# gun with a standard weight 20 gauge load of 7/8 running 1250fps. Recoil is 19.3
A 12 gauge weighing 8# with a 1-1/8 load at the same velocity is 21.8 while a 1oz load is 17.9

So even if you aren't comparing same weights or payloads, you can see the difference

 

[danez71]

Oh... I read it. And it makes sense. And it might be relevant to someone that doesn't know that.

Physics applies equally to 12 ga as it does 20. Great. We can agree on that.

But sense what you quoted of me doesn't give a hint to otherwise.... while it may be relevant to the thread, it isn't really so much relevant to what you quoted.

I hope that's enough to allow you to feel better.

ETA; This was in reply to DocRock.

 

[danez71]

Running the calculator I took a 6# gun with a standard weight 20 gauge load of 7/8 running 1250fps. Recoil is 19.3
A 12 gauge weighing 8# with a 1-1/8 load at the same velocity is 21.8 while a 1oz load is 17.9

So even if you aren't comparing same weights or payloads, you can see the difference

Yes.... I can see that.

I'm not disputing you or physics.

This is what I said.

I have Maverick 88's in both 20 and 12 and a 18" OC barrel for each.

Ive shot both side by side with and with out a limbsaver using both cheap slugs and cheap buckshot. (I think still have some of each of the 4 kinds.)

The 20 has less felt recoil.

 

[kudu]

And I think we are done.