20 round mag? No, it’s a 7 round mag

[Elkins45]

I’ve been investigating big bore rounds for the AR platform. One of the things I have learned is that the 458 SOCOM uses standard mags/followers but at much reduced capacity. A 20 round 223 magazine only holds 7 rounds of 458.

That made me think about AR owners who live in states with 10 round magazine limits. If they buy a 458 upper for their AR then they should be able to buy as many 7 (20) round magazines as they like, correct? If they own a 223 upper then it would make sense to buy a couple of smaller mags that can’t hold more than 10, but it seems that unless you get caught loading 223 into your 458 mags you could buy as many as you want. If I were in a ban state I might consider buying a 458 upper even if I really didn’t want one.

 

[badkarmamib]

Just another example of the fallacy of trying legislate good behavior, by banning features.

 

[jmorris]

but it seems that unless you get caught loading 223 into your 458 mags you could buy as many as you want. If I were in a ban state I might consider buying a 458 upper even if I really didn’t want one.

There are many laws one can break that don’t have consequences unless they are caught. I’m not sure I get the point?

 

[Elkins45]

There are many laws one can break that don’t have consequences unless they are caught. I’m not sure I get the point?

My point was that mere possession of them wouldn’t be a crime because you have an honest defense that they are 7 round SOCOM mags and therefore legal to possess. If you stuff them with 20 rounds of 223 then they are obviously 20 round mags and therefore illegal.

It’s sort of like Schrodinger’s Cat.

 

[jmorris]

in the sentence I quoted above the premise was to buy a 458 upper as a reason to have 20 round mags. If my assumption is incorrect, why buy something you really don’t want?


You didn’t mention a State by name but possession alone isn’t always a factor.

I suppose one could do this and report back if they ever have charges filed.



Reminds me of this one though.

 

[AlexanderA]

That made me think about AR owners who live in states with 10 round magazine limits. If they buy a 458 upper for their AR then they should be able to buy as many 7 (20) round magazines as they like, correct?

Too clever by half.

I have scads of 20-round STANAG magazines. These could all become illegal (felonies) if the Democrats win next week's legislative election here in Virginia. So let's say I label them ".458 SOCOM"? The same legislation makes the lower receivers of such weapons likewise felonies. So how am I ahead?

 

[Sistema1927]

Your first mistake is in assuming that gun banners utilize logic.

 

[Elkins45]

Too clever by half.

I have scads of 20-round STANAG magazines. These could all become illegal (felonies) if the Democrats win next week's legislative election here in Virginia. So let's say I label them ".458 SOCOM"? The same legislation makes the lower receivers of such weapons likewise felonies. So how am I ahead?

You have proposed legislation that includes an outright ban of AR style rifles?

 

[Walkalong]

It won't fly, because it is still a 20 round mag for a 5.56/.223.

 

[Elkins45]

It won't fly, because it is still a 20 round mag for a 5.56/.223.

Has this actually been tested anywhere?

 

[Ohen Cepel]

During the AWB there were many 10rd mags sold which would hold more ammo of a different caliber. Pretty sure 11 or 12rds of 9mm will fit in a Beretta 40 cal 10rd magazine. So, I see the point to some extent. That said, the people wanting to take away freedom are not know for their common sense nor understanding of basic machines.

 

[AlexanderA]

You have proposed legislation that includes an outright ban of AR style rifles?

That's right. Gov. Northam's antigun legislative package, revealed this last summer, includes a draconian AWB that would outlaw AR's, AK's, and similar rifles, and all over-10-round magazines. No grandfathering, no "buyback," and possession of even one would be a felony. We would be given 6 months to (a) destroy all such items, or render them useless, (b) turn them in to police, or (c) remove them from the state.

 

[jmorris]

During the AWB there were many 10rd mags sold which would hold more ammo of a different caliber.

During the AWB there were people that assembled new magazines from replacement parts too. Lots of ways to break the law, if your not trying to follow them.

 

[WestKentucky]

During the AWB there were people that assembled new magazines from replacement parts too. Lots of ways to break the law, if your not trying to follow them.

Amazing that there weren’t 80% magazines mass marketed... now there’s a business idea. Injection molded magazine that you just mill out the column and install a prefab feed lip system...

 

[SharpDog]

Amazing that there weren’t 80% magazines mass marketed... now there’s a business idea. Injection molded magazine that you just mill out the column and install a prefab feed lip system...

I would bet you can print an 80% magazine from a digital printer

 

[SharpDog]

That's right. Gov. Northam's antigun legislative package, revealed this last summer, includes a draconian AWB that would outlaw AR's, AK's, and similar rifles, and all over-10-round magazines. No grandfathering, no "buyback," and possession of even one would be a felony. We would be given 6 months to (a) destroy all such items, or render them useless, (b) turn them in to police, or (c) remove them from the state.

erm ... This does not seem like it will actually work .. or maybe work as well as the Chicago anti-gun laws.

 

[Elkins45]

Amazing that there weren’t 80% magazines mass marketed... now there’s a business idea. Injection molded magazine that you just mill out the column and install a prefab feed lip system...

When you assemble a gun from an 80% lower you are presumably doing so in compliance with the laws of your particular state. You can’t legally turn an 80% lower into a “full featured” gun in CA anymore than you can if you start with a fully machined lower. The 80% magazine would turn into a prohibited item as soon as it was completed unless it was somehow made in such a way it could only hold 10 rounds.

I suppose you could say you were only going to cut the pocket deep enough to hold 10+spring+follower, but how do you insert a follower into a blind magazine? I guess that’s where the removable feed lips come in?

 

[AlexanderA]

erm ... This does not seem like it will actually work .. or maybe work as well as the Chicago anti-gun laws.

I would expect massive non-compliance. However, a felony conviction would preclude you from having any guns, for life. Why take the chance? A lot of gun owners are either going to be moving themselves, or their guns, out of state. For some the move will be easier than it will be for others.

Obviously the criminals wouldn't care. But the law-abiding citizens, those that have a lot to lose, would.

All the signs point to the Democrats winning the 1-2 seats they need in each House of the legislature. The only hope is that the more rational heads among them will prevail, once the consequences of such an extreme AWB are pointed out to them.

 

[Rule3]

Has this actually been tested anywhere?

You are hereby designated as the poster boy test subject

I took my dog to a State Park once and it said all pets must be on a leash. I let the dog run freely. A Ranger came y and scolded me/"All dogs must be on a leash" I told him the dog was on a leash, the sign did not say I had to be holding it!. It was all in jest, he actually laughed and was petting my dog.

 

[Elkins45]

You are hereby designated as the poster boy test subject

I’m happy to say I live in a state where there will never be a state-instituted magazine capacity limit. If I’m going to be a poster boy it will be for a Federal limit.

 

[Rule3]

I’m happy to say I live in a state where there will never be a state-instituted magazine capacity limit. If I’m going to be a poster boy it will be for a Federal limit.

Never say Never Highly unlikely for Kentucky but we see how fast they crammed red flag and 21 to buy a rifle laws here in the GunShine State

 

[heyjoe]

I’m happy to say I live in a state where there will never be a state-instituted magazine capacity limit. If I’m going to be a poster boy it will be for a Federal limit.

thats what people who live in virginia, colorado, new mexico, florida, Washington,etc thought about the possibility of gun laws in their respective states at one time

 

[RickD427]

That argument ain't gonna work in California.

The magazine was designed as a 20 round 5.56/.223 magazine. It can also be employed as a 7 round .458 magazine. The key to the argument is that when employed as a .458 magazine, it has only a 7 round capacity and is therefore legal.

The problem, in California, is that the law does not define a magazine's capacity according to its usage. It defines magazine capacity as "having the ability to accept" more than 10 rounds (refer to CPC 16740). So long as the magazine in question "has the ability to accept" 20 rounds of 5.56/.223 it's a large-capacity magazine irrespective of only holding 7 rounds of .458.

 

[old lady new shooter]

That's right. Gov. Northam's antigun legislative package, revealed this last summer, includes a draconian AWB that would outlaw AR's, AK's, and similar rifles, and all over-10-round magazines. No grandfathering, no "buyback," and possession of even one would be a felony. We would be given 6 months to (a) destroy all such items, or render them useless, (b) turn them in to police, or (c) remove them from the state.

Do you think this will pass?

 

[jmr40]

A 10 round mag designed for 40 S&W works perfectly and holds 14 rounds of 9mm in the same model pistols. This was a common trick used during the 1994-2004 AWB. I had 10 round G23 magazines for my G19. It worked with both Beretta 96 magazines in 92's and with Smith&Wesson and Ruger pistols too. Not the 1st time this has been thought about.