.218 bee - how much brass to buy

[Dan Forrester]

A few years back my father and I bought a Marlin 1894CL in .218 bee while on a trip out in Montana. He had a Winchester 43 as a kid which he regrettably sold later in life. Knowing that ammunition was pretty much non existent we figured this would create an excuse for us to get into reloading.

Last year my father retired at 63 and we began gathering together everything we would need to start reloading. I think we have pretty much everything: press, dies, bullets, primers, powder, scales, case lube, case trimmer. Basically everything except the brass. Unfortunately my father passed away back in February before the brass ever arrived.

Last week I got a notification from Midway USA that the Hornady .218 bee brass was back in stock. I immediately bought 500 incase it quickly sold out. I know .218 brass hasn't been available for years at this point and this might be my last time to ever buy this brass.

So I guess my question is should I buy more brass? I plan on forging ahead with my plans to reload for this cartridge now that I have everything. Ive got a 2 year old son and in a few more years the two of us can do some reloading together. Im not sure what the brass life on this cartridge is. I plan to almost exclusively be loading light plinking loads for it. Maybe even gas checked cast if that is practical in this caliber. If I were to shoot maybe 100-200 rounds a year what would be a lifetime supply of brass for this caliber?

Thanks, Dan

 

[Havok7416]

I think you can reform .32-20 brass into .218 Bee fairly easily and Starline makes that. 500 cases should last a long time though.

 

[someguy2800]

Never loaded 218 bee but I have been told the cases are very thin so case life I relatively short, as in 5 loadings or so. It might be a good investment to buy a hornady case length comparator so you can adjust your sizing die to only size the case down a couple thousandths of an inch from there fired dimensions. That should help save on case life.

 

[ReloaderFred]

I'm sorry you lost your father at such a young age, Dan. That's always hard....

As for the .218 Bee brass, it can be formed from .32-20 brass, which is much cheaper than the Hornady brass, but it has to be done in two steps. First, it has to be formed to .25-20, then formed to .218 Bee. If you don't do the mid step to .25-20, you'll lose most of it to wrinkling, and even with the mid step, you'll still lose about 5% when sizing down. At least that's been my experience.

The upside is, for what the Hornady brass cost, you can buy a Redding File Trim Die in .25-20, the loading dies in .218 Bee and the .32-20 brass from Starline and still be way ahead. The key to stepping it down is to lube the case necks with good lube, and go slow with each step.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[adcoch1]

I would probably buy another 500, just because of scarcity, and if you ever sell the rifle the brass would add a lot of value in the transaction. Use the first 500 till its worn out and keep the other 500 as an investment...

 

[hdwhit]

Dan Forrester wrote:
If I were to shoot maybe 100-200 rounds a year what would be a lifetime supply of brass for this caliber?

I'm not trying to be flippant, but the answer to your question will depend on how old you are, what age you intend to give up shooting, whether you think your son will be interested in continuing to load/shoot the 218 Bee and how long his shooting career might last.

I'm months away from retirement and when I do pull the plug, my income will drop to roughly half of what it is currently so I wanted to lay in a lifetime of reloading supplied while cash was more plentiful. Neither of my sons have any interest in reloading so I figure my reloading career will end by the time I'm in my early 80's (most people with my disability don't live into their 80's, so that's a generous estimate) and that means components for about 20 years.

I face a similar problem with 5.7mm Johnson that you do with 218 Bee as the ready source of brass is to form another case. And since brass is already hard to get and will only get harder, I would take ReloaderFred's advice and get the necessary dies now. I have laid in 1,850 rounds of brass for my wildcat. I figure I will lose 250 of these rounds during load development so they will not end up in the reloading stream leaving me with 1,600 rounds. Considering cases lost in the weeds and cases that stretch enough to present a fear of head separation, I anticipate loading each of the cases an average of 2.33 times which translates to about 3,700 firings or 15 per month over 20 years.

In the case of 218 Bee, if you are expecting to get, say, 5 firings out of each case (initial firing + four reloads) and wanted to shoot 100 rounds a year over the rest of you and your son's shooting career, which we can take to be a total of, maybe, 50 years, you would need 1,000 cases (100 * 50 = 5,000 divided by 5 = 1,000).

 

[Sunray]

Anything that's remotely unusual, you should buy as much brass as you can, when you can. Mind you, the Hornady stuff at $33.29 per 50 from Midway still isn't exactly cheap and 500 will last a long time.
That .32-20 isn't much better via Midway. Starline only and $122.99 per 500. Plus a big pile of money for forming dies. $173.99 if you opt for RCBS. And your time.
"...5 firings out of each case..." For only 5 buy ammo.

 

[ReloaderFred]

Forming .218 Bee from Starline .32-20 brass is relatively simple, but only use new brass to do it. Brass work hardens, and I've found that fired brass doesn't size down well unless it's annealed, which I don't care to do.

Buying say 500 rounds of new Starline brass directly from Starline costs $111.50, with free shipping. Buying 1,000 rounds will cost $193.00, delivered. The 200 rounds of Hornady .218 Bee brass I bought came to $133.16, plus shipping, so you can see the cost savings there. The .25-20 file trim die was less than $30.00.

You don't have to break the bank to be able to shoot this rifle, and there isn't any .218 Bee factory ammunition available that I've been able to find.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[hdwhit]

Sunray wrote:
"...5 firings out of each case..."

Keep in mind that 5 firings is a figure that someguy2800 mentioned having heard. He didn't claim it to be an established fact. I used it in my post because it was a plausible life for a thin wall case and using it creates a kind of "worst case scenario". If Dan Forrester and his son buy enough brass to get by with only 5 firings per case then he and his son will be assured of half a century of shooting ahead of them. If they get 7 or 10 firings per case, then Dan and his son will be able to teach his grandchildren how to reload the 218 Bee and they'll be searching whatever supplants Amazon for a new barrel for the rifle.

 

[someguy2800]

Yes, don't take my post as any indication of expected case life. I know someone that has one and I asked him if it was any better than a 22 hornet in terms of brass life and thats what I was told. With different dies shooting in a different chamber you might get 3, or you might get 30 if you anneal them and resize carefully as I would.

 

[hdwhit]

ReloaderFred wrote:
...but only use new brass to do it. Brass work hardens, and I've found that fired brass doesn't size down well unless it's annealed,...

Thank your for that reminder.

For the cases that I will be using with my 5.7mm Johnson, roughly 1,400 of the 1,600 I anticipate being part of the reloading stream are new Starline or Norma brass. The other 200 is once-fired brass that I know was fired only once. The remainder - the stuff I intend to use while developing the load and not reload - is "previously fired" and since most of the headstamps are Korean War vintage, I suspect "previously fired" many times.

 

[WiTom]

I have 2 Model 43 in 218 Bee, and a matching Hornet. I reload and I am on my 6th case reload with 200 rounds and I lost 2 of them, due to damaged necks, on this session. Hope that helps with your thinking. I was truly blessed, to find a fellow reloader getting rid of over 900 218 Bee cases, last year, for a great price, which I tumbled and cleaned and have in reserve. I use the Sierra 22 cal. Hornet #1110 SP, with H4198, which shoots great out of my Bees'. They are 45 grain. Hope you the best, and have fun with your son reloading.

 

[WiTom]

I forgot to mention that hdwhit had great advice, if you can afford it now, I would pick up another 500 Bee cases if you can, as they aren't getting any easier to find, and it is easier when you are younger.

 

[ReloaderFred]

I tried to size down some .32-20 brass that had been fired a couple of times at least, and lost every one of them to crushing. Now I only use virgin brass for the .218 Bee.

I size down other cases for other calibers, i.e.; 10mm to 9x25 Dillon, .45 acp to .400 Cor-Bon, but those are thicker cases and once fired works fine for necking down. The thin .32-20 brass isn't as forgiving.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[Hummer70]

Case life can depend on several things, how hot you load it, how you anneal the case necks and how hard the case head is. Some commercial brass I reload twice and forget it as the primer pockets get loose. Basically if you care for your brass properly the only thing that should retire it is loose primer pockets which will allow gas to leak around the primer cutting away your bolt face in a circle around the striker opening. If you can I would neck size it and stay away from full length resizing as well.

 

[GooseGestapo]

I'm getting 10-12 loadings from reformed Starline.32-20. It's fairly brittle to start with, but I've got 300+/- Starline, 200 Winchester, 50 RemUMC, and now 50 Hornady.
Most of my loads are near factory duplication, with 40-45gr jacketed bullets. Case life is very good (Marlin 1894CL).
Start hot-rodding with Hodgdon Lil'Gun, and cases will start splitting necks and growing and require frequent trimming.
I've found I prefer the Armscor 40gr JHP's. At .07each, it beats casting and .035 gaschecks.

 

[Dan Forrester]

Thanks for all the responses everyone!

I never thought about re sizing .32-20 down to size. It looks like unfortunately .25-20 has gone away like the .218 Bee. At least the .32-20 is still cheap and easy to acquire at least for now. Ive always liked those .32-20 pump guns!

I think I'm going to pick up another 500 Hornady cases as others have suggested. I'll use the first 500 to learn how to reload with. By the time those are worn out ill be a more experienced reloader and then I'll try reforming .32-20 brass. Im 35 now so I hope to have another good 35 years of life left in me. The second set of 500 I just won't touch. Ill leave them new in the box. If my son (who is only 2 now) has no interest in shooting or reloading it will make a nice package to sell someday down the road.

Im going to try to go through the reloading equipment we have acquired here in the next couple days and see what all is there. Maybe even try to reload my first cartridges here in the next couple weeks.

Thanks for all the help!

Dan

 

[ReloaderFred]

Dan,

The .218 Bee is going to be a little more difficult to learn to load on than say, .38 Special, or some other easy round. The case necks are thin, so go slow and easy as you learn the process. I started reloading when I was 19, way before there was an internet, so I'm self taught for the most part. I'll be 73 in a couple of months, and I'm still learning, so don't get frustrated if you crush a couple of cases in the learning process. It happens. Get a good manual, if you don't already have one, and read the introduction to reloading. I'd suggest the Lyman 49th or 50th Edition, since it covers the basics a little more thoroughly than some of the others. A good understanding of what each step does, and how it affects the outcome, goes a long way in helping the beginner.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[witchhunter]

Fred knows, but you can also use 25/20 brass, it might be easier to neck down. 25/20 brass is also hard to find. I have a Winchester 43 in .218 and it is a great round. I wish I had 500 more pieces of brass for it! Check the twist, you may be limited in projectile that are light and short, but that is OK, the hornet bullets are made to expand at lower velocities that the Bee will provide anyway. Set up your sizer die to size brass to fit your chamber, not cammed over as most instructions suggest, that will help case life too.